What Do The AIRTRAN Folks think of SL10
09-26-2011, 08:34 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Where is the thread was do Delta pilots think of SL10? 
I just want to get this straight - GK: Dear FL pilots, you irritate us, give up your seats to my pilots or you're all fired.
Is that right?
I just want to get this straight - GK: Dear FL pilots, you irritate us, give up your seats to my pilots or you're all fired.
Is that right?
09-26-2011, 09:30 AM
#3
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 2
I am between 10 and 15 % overall seniority - currently at AirTran - CA 737. I have been a captain for many years at AirTran. I lost approx. 30 % in seniority when placed on the combined list. I am being placed with SWA F/O's with DOH's approx. 2-3 years after my DOH. I did have total control of my quality of life. Any days I wanted to work, any cities, times, vacation, ... I was on track to make approx. 200 thousand in salary this year. In addition, the company writes a seperate check every month equal to 10.5 % of my monthly gross and it is sent to my 401 K. Also, we just started a 1 % company match to our personal 401k contributions.
Now I have 3 choices. 717 CA . 717 F/O. SWA 737 F/O. If I bid back to the 717 it is risky. SWA has stated they do not want the airplane. No one trust SWAPA or SWA right now because of what has happened thus far. They have told us they have no intention of following any of the agreements that were signed or verbally agreed to by all the parties. I don’t want to be on the plane and they fire us and get rid of the airplane. If I choose to stay on the 737 then I must bid to be a F/O. They will not let anyone come over as a Captain- period. I will have to start commuting to one of their bases. I will be given a chance to upgrade in 2015 if there are vacancies. This will place me as a very junior CA. All quality of life is now gone. Oh, and I take about a 20 DOLLAR PER HOUR PAY CUT. For some reason, everyone seems to think that SWA F/O's make more per hour than an AirTan Captain. In about 17 – 19 years I will be back to what I am currently on the AirTran Seniority list. Only 1 -3 years left at that point.
From the SWAPA bullet points:
For SW Pilots a certainty of “no harm” integrated seniority, An improvement of relative seniority, Increase in overall career earnings, significant and assured upgrade opportunities on the AirTran 737’s and maybe the 717’s.
SWAPA and SWA are pointing out to us AirTran pilots we gain the following: 1. A place on the Southwest Master Seniority list. 2. A clear and certain path to integrated operations (We already had signed documents and verbal agreements – how do we trust this again). 3. Our medical and dental will now be a little cheaper per month. 4. We get to participate in the profit sharing and they match 9.3 percent of our contribution. ( I was getting 10.5 of monthly gross without me contributing before and 1 % of matched contributions). 5. Coverage of the Southwest Pilot fatigue policy. 6. Significant career earnings after 2015, ( SWAPA says CA’s make around 240,000 per year). I was already making pretty close to that.
What do I think? I think one minute we were profitable, hiring and getting new aircraft deliveries. I had a great life. Southwest shows up giving us parties and talking about their culture. They send us literature on life as a Southwest pilot to our homes. They really want to focus on the money. They tell us how they don’t want a US AIR problem. They want to come to an agreement with us on how to integrate the seniority list. The use Delta and Northwest as a positive example. Mediation and Arbitration people are chosen along with dates. We show up and are hammered with threats of unemployment if we do not accept their offer.
Now I have 3 choices. 717 CA . 717 F/O. SWA 737 F/O. If I bid back to the 717 it is risky. SWA has stated they do not want the airplane. No one trust SWAPA or SWA right now because of what has happened thus far. They have told us they have no intention of following any of the agreements that were signed or verbally agreed to by all the parties. I don’t want to be on the plane and they fire us and get rid of the airplane. If I choose to stay on the 737 then I must bid to be a F/O. They will not let anyone come over as a Captain- period. I will have to start commuting to one of their bases. I will be given a chance to upgrade in 2015 if there are vacancies. This will place me as a very junior CA. All quality of life is now gone. Oh, and I take about a 20 DOLLAR PER HOUR PAY CUT. For some reason, everyone seems to think that SWA F/O's make more per hour than an AirTan Captain. In about 17 – 19 years I will be back to what I am currently on the AirTran Seniority list. Only 1 -3 years left at that point.
From the SWAPA bullet points:
For SW Pilots a certainty of “no harm” integrated seniority, An improvement of relative seniority, Increase in overall career earnings, significant and assured upgrade opportunities on the AirTran 737’s and maybe the 717’s.
SWAPA and SWA are pointing out to us AirTran pilots we gain the following: 1. A place on the Southwest Master Seniority list. 2. A clear and certain path to integrated operations (We already had signed documents and verbal agreements – how do we trust this again). 3. Our medical and dental will now be a little cheaper per month. 4. We get to participate in the profit sharing and they match 9.3 percent of our contribution. ( I was getting 10.5 of monthly gross without me contributing before and 1 % of matched contributions). 5. Coverage of the Southwest Pilot fatigue policy. 6. Significant career earnings after 2015, ( SWAPA says CA’s make around 240,000 per year). I was already making pretty close to that.
What do I think? I think one minute we were profitable, hiring and getting new aircraft deliveries. I had a great life. Southwest shows up giving us parties and talking about their culture. They send us literature on life as a Southwest pilot to our homes. They really want to focus on the money. They tell us how they don’t want a US AIR problem. They want to come to an agreement with us on how to integrate the seniority list. The use Delta and Northwest as a positive example. Mediation and Arbitration people are chosen along with dates. We show up and are hammered with threats of unemployment if we do not accept their offer.
09-26-2011, 11:50 AM
#6
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
Does that surprise you? Its their modus operandi.
Sounds like a good reason to let the arbitrator decide to me.
Sounds like a good reason to let the arbitrator decide to me.
And that's if they say no, two FL pilots say the vote would be a 70/30 approval.
09-26-2011, 11:54 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by cloudsurf
I am between 10 and 15 % overall seniority - currently at AirTran - CA 737. I have been a captain for many years at AirTran. I lost approx. 30 % in seniority when placed on the combined list. I am being placed with SWA F/O's with DOH's approx. 2-3 years after my DOH. I did have total control of my quality of life. Any days I wanted to work, any cities, times, vacation, ... I was on track to make approx. 200 thousand in salary this year. In addition, the company writes a seperate check every month equal to 10.5 % of my monthly gross and it is sent to my 401 K. Also, we just started a 1 % company match to our personal 401k contributions.
Now I have 3 choices. 717 CA . 717 F/O. SWA 737 F/O. If I bid back to the 717 it is risky. SWA has stated they do not want the airplane. No one trust SWAPA or SWA right now because of what has happened thus far. They have told us they have no intention of following any of the agreements that were signed or verbally agreed to by all the parties. I don’t want to be on the plane and they fire us and get rid of the airplane. If I choose to stay on the 737 then I must bid to be a F/O. They will not let anyone come over as a Captain- period. I will have to start commuting to one of their bases. I will be given a chance to upgrade in 2015 if there are vacancies. This will place me as a very junior CA. All quality of life is now gone. Oh, and I take about a 20 DOLLAR PER HOUR PAY CUT. For some reason, everyone seems to think that SWA F/O's make more per hour than an AirTan Captain. In about 17 – 19 years I will be back to what I am currently on the AirTran Seniority list. Only 1 -3 years left at that point.
From the SWAPA bullet points:
For SW Pilots a certainty of “no harm” integrated seniority, An improvement of relative seniority, Increase in overall career earnings, significant and assured upgrade opportunities on the AirTran 737’s and maybe the 717’s.
SWAPA and SWA are pointing out to us AirTran pilots we gain the following: 1. A place on the Southwest Master Seniority list. 2. A clear and certain path to integrated operations (We already had signed documents and verbal agreements – how do we trust this again). 3. Our medical and dental will now be a little cheaper per month. 4. We get to participate in the profit sharing and they match 9.3 percent of our contribution. ( I was getting 10.5 of monthly gross without me contributing before and 1 % of matched contributions). 5. Coverage of the Southwest Pilot fatigue policy. 6. Significant career earnings after 2015, ( SWAPA says CA’s make around 240,000 per year). I was already making pretty close to that.
What do I think? I think one minute we were profitable, hiring and getting new aircraft deliveries. I had a great life. Southwest shows up giving us parties and talking about their culture. They send us literature on life as a Southwest pilot to our homes. They really want to focus on the money. They tell us how they don’t want a US AIR problem. They want to come to an agreement with us on how to integrate the seniority list. The use Delta and Northwest as a positive example. Mediation and Arbitration people are chosen along with dates. We show up and are hammered with threats of unemployment if we do not accept their offer.
Now I have 3 choices. 717 CA . 717 F/O. SWA 737 F/O. If I bid back to the 717 it is risky. SWA has stated they do not want the airplane. No one trust SWAPA or SWA right now because of what has happened thus far. They have told us they have no intention of following any of the agreements that were signed or verbally agreed to by all the parties. I don’t want to be on the plane and they fire us and get rid of the airplane. If I choose to stay on the 737 then I must bid to be a F/O. They will not let anyone come over as a Captain- period. I will have to start commuting to one of their bases. I will be given a chance to upgrade in 2015 if there are vacancies. This will place me as a very junior CA. All quality of life is now gone. Oh, and I take about a 20 DOLLAR PER HOUR PAY CUT. For some reason, everyone seems to think that SWA F/O's make more per hour than an AirTan Captain. In about 17 – 19 years I will be back to what I am currently on the AirTran Seniority list. Only 1 -3 years left at that point.
From the SWAPA bullet points:
For SW Pilots a certainty of “no harm” integrated seniority, An improvement of relative seniority, Increase in overall career earnings, significant and assured upgrade opportunities on the AirTran 737’s and maybe the 717’s.
SWAPA and SWA are pointing out to us AirTran pilots we gain the following: 1. A place on the Southwest Master Seniority list. 2. A clear and certain path to integrated operations (We already had signed documents and verbal agreements – how do we trust this again). 3. Our medical and dental will now be a little cheaper per month. 4. We get to participate in the profit sharing and they match 9.3 percent of our contribution. ( I was getting 10.5 of monthly gross without me contributing before and 1 % of matched contributions). 5. Coverage of the Southwest Pilot fatigue policy. 6. Significant career earnings after 2015, ( SWAPA says CA’s make around 240,000 per year). I was already making pretty close to that.
What do I think? I think one minute we were profitable, hiring and getting new aircraft deliveries. I had a great life. Southwest shows up giving us parties and talking about their culture. They send us literature on life as a Southwest pilot to our homes. They really want to focus on the money. They tell us how they don’t want a US AIR problem. They want to come to an agreement with us on how to integrate the seniority list. The use Delta and Northwest as a positive example. Mediation and Arbitration people are chosen along with dates. We show up and are hammered with threats of unemployment if we do not accept their offer.
09-26-2011, 11:59 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Pretty good summation. I don't know how SWA management and SWAPA can look at themselves in the mirror. Unbelievable.
And just to verify, at any point SWA can say "that's it, you're all fired" and close up shop and bring in their employees to replace the fired FL employees?
09-26-2011, 12:50 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Hey Alfa, you're versed in this, what happens if FL says NO?
And just to verify, at any point SWA can say "that's it, you're all fired" and close up shop and bring in their employees to replace the fired FL employees?
And just to verify, at any point SWA can say "that's it, you're all fired" and close up shop and bring in their employees to replace the fired FL employees?
I do know that the Airtran pilots came to the merger with weak merger protection language that was negotiated by the NPA. Carl or RCD73 will chime in that ALPA negotiated a deal AFTER the merger announcement, but you and I both know that whatever language the NPA negotiated, the Airtran pilots were stuck with it. Sometimes independence has its costs.
I know that the language in our scope clause would never allow it. I know there must be some threat, otherwise the Airtran leadership would reject this POS on sight. I am pretty sure that an arbitrator would never make a list this heinous. I am pretty sure that SWAPA and SWA management believe that an arbitrator would never make a list this heinous and thus are resorting to extortion to get their way.
I know that I have lost respect for SWA management and SWAPA. This is extortion and they are just one legbreaker away from becoming just like the mob.
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