We've got guys now just leaving during training. They don't come back to class or no show during training events. It's better to just walk away and act like it never happened. Very sad.

121 failures are not the end of the world. I had two at a regional and still got hired at a legacy.

Actually it is the end of the world....not good for the ole resume!

I personally know a guy who failed his type ride twice, was released by the company and has now finished his probationary period at FedEx.

Just like everything else, it’s just one factor in many. During his FedEx interview, he owned up to it, said it was ALL his fault, didn’t try to lay blame on the system, the training, the instructors, etc; and was able to turn it into a positive experience by what he learned and how it actually made him a better aviator.

A 121 failure isn’t a good thing, but it’s not the end of the world or your 121 career.

So how does the hydraulic system differ so greatly in the 320 from other Part 25 aircraft out there?

I'm not going to defend the newhire program; it's deserving of all the criticism being laid upon it on here and elsewhere. But the reality is you're going to get CBT training on your own at most places now. At least they pay you for the trouble, though, as NK expects people to show up having done it for free.

The only systems unique and deserving of one-on-one instruction are automation, flight laws and maybe the ECAM system. Everything else is much like the last 2-3 airplanes you're typed in.

Of course, the program assumes you've been around 2-3 types of Part 25 jets, hence the problem. Regionals teach Jet Basic 101, no one else does.

Blaming the training department for failures is rationalizing the fact that we are hiring lesser qualified pilots and this is the result.

Guys busting orals in greater numbers than before? 5 years ago there wasn't a nice oral study guide, now there is. So how is training for the oral gotten worse? The majority of our APDs are the same APDs over the last 5 years, asking the same oral questions, and guys failing more than ever before. Guys are getting a much longer leash in training than they did 5 years ago, some allowed to redo the entire ground school. Never would you see that 5 years ago, but they need bodies, so they keep "sending them up" until they can pass.

Its been said time and time again, this is not a training program that is designed for low time pilots with little to no experience in 121, crew environment, fast paced training, high stress, jet systems.

When 25% of a class fails their check ride, this isn't the fault of instructors, its the fact that the training system is and always has been a fast paced rush job and it is glaringly obvious this doesn't work any longer.

Ill be honest, I couldn't care less that guys are failing. Its not like they made the training program harder, its easier than before. Let guys fail and leave, show the company that pilots are not as easy to attract as hanging a "Now Hiring" sign in the window down in Miramar.

Until the company decides to pay the pilots, guys will continue to fail because $38 will only get you so much in todays market. So let them fail, sounds cold, but its our only leverage we have now, the school house. Failing a training program isn't the death punch it was before and many of these failures can easily go back to a regional and make more money. While there, they can build up some more experience that they may have lacked at 2200TT when they applied here.

I wasn’t really trying to reference hydraulics specifically because you are right it’s not much different. My point is when you go to the CSI training events or any event for that matter the briefing which is where the majority of the instruction happens is completely different depending on the instructor. They have nothing to go on, no syllabus. It’s a joke. They all teach off their own notes and what they think is important.

Completely agree. I’m obviously not a fan of the program but it is doable when you hire experienced pilots. We can’t attract them in today’s market and now captains get to give extended OE for no override.

This is a load of crap.

Oh so true. The trips where the FO needs little to no "guidance" is such a rarity now vs 2 years ago.