Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2467224)

You've way exaggerated this. My experience has been the opposite, top 80% get almost everything they want.

Originally Posted by astral (Post 2467284)

I do not know where you work and what work rules are programmed into the PBS system you are using.
You are here in strong support of PBS, why?
I have also worked with PBS at a company with far superior rules and compliance than Spirit management will ever have under "Bob".
For the top 15% life is good.
20-60% gets some of their requests some of the time,
Below 70% might as well not bid, you get the leftovers and maybe ONE of your top requests.
You have a better chance of getting your choices on a relief than you do below 70% at PBS.
A union controlled PBS, with ALL the current work rules, would still be a huge concession with no turning back.

I think this is an issue of long term vs short term career goals at Spirit.
For those who plan to be here more than 5 years, PBS will motivate them to leave even sooner!

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2467292)

if you get industry-standard wages.

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2467292)

Well I guess we've had vastly different experiences with it. I'm not here to strongly support PBS for anybody. I just think there's a lot of people fear-mongering something they've had little experience with, for the most part I think it's unwarranted. Most of the legacies have PBS and after working the kinks out over a contract or two schedule control greatly improved. I've never ever heard anybody say I wish we could go back to lines of time.
I shared my opinion because because I think too much negotiating power will be wasted on it. I think you guys should use it as a great tool against the company. Act like it's something that you'll die to give up but you will if you get industry-standard wages.

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2467220)

You're dramatics are meaningless. The 15% won't get cut off the bottom it'll just be less total needed in the future. That 15% hasn't been hired yet....and given the lack of people even showing up to class or finishing, I don't think that's going to be a problem. But go ahead keep that future 15% so everyone can do their best working schedule magic and trip drops to try to get what you want.
People on the bottom don't get their desired schedule under either plan so that point is meaningless too.
I've had years of both types. PBS by far has been better.
But I understand when you have severely low wages it's hard to make up the lack income unless you pick up huge amounts of credit some way.
Hopefully you guys win and get industry-standard wages and these problems will be in the past. I really do wish you the best of luck. If I was anywhere near Texas tomorrow I would march with you guys.
BTW I have been in that bottom 15%. But if I spend my whole career worrying about being in the bottom 15% and forget about the 85 that doesn't make for such a great career.

Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 2467007)

Im ok with middle day drops going away if it means we get Industry Standard Pay. They gottaaaaaa pay though!

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2467292)

Most of the legacies have PBS and after working the kinks out over a contract or two schedule control greatly improved.

Originally Posted by DFWLECNOW (Post 2467182)

“Create schedules per my request...” is where you lost me. Maybe that works for people with a lot of seniority in category, but for the bottom 80% it should read “my request MAY be considered by a management controlled computer.” But PBS is just a way to sort pairings says the Spirit MEC.

Originally Posted by Ed Force One (Post 2467671)

"A contract or two?" That's, like, 20 years in Spirit Time.



Ask the guys who bid Relief Lines. (Not me, I haven't had one in years) A relief line is pretty much PBS for the bottom 70%, is it not? I'm genuinely interested, as I'll probably be getting them very soon.

Originally Posted by astral (Post 2467284)

For the top 15% life is good.
20-60% gets some of their requests some of the time,
Below 70% might as well not bid, you get the leftovers and maybe ONE of your top requests.

Originally Posted by Macjet (Post 2468680)

How is this any different than line bidding?

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 2468806)

Staffing, and thereby relative seniority which will determine you base, your seat, your vacation weeks, weekends off, holidays off, furlough status.

Everything else is a moot point.

Originally Posted by Macjet (Post 2468680)

How is this any different than line bidding?

Originally Posted by YourMom (Post 2468866)

You are bidding pairings and everyone must be legal and no conflicts. There is no guarantee that anyone will get specific days off unless you are number 1. You will see with pbs that junior pilots will get days off that you want and you will not. You will file a missaward and it will come back as "global feasability". I would rather have a line drop and rebuild any day.

Originally Posted by Macjet (Post 2468831)

That doesn't answer the question of how PBS only benefits the top but somehow line bidding doesn't.

Thank you for not saying a 'mute' point.

I don't have a problem giving the company more efficiency as long as we're compensated for our fair share of that. Southwest employs 13 pilots per airframe and we employ 18 (round numbers). That level of inefficiency with our current ask isn't good for the long term health of Spirit nor for our continued employment. I want Spirit competitive. I want us lean. And I want us able to compete against our peers because this is the horse I've hitched my wagon to. Correcting our staffing inefficiency in a growth period is the best way we can swallow this pill as there wouldn't be any furloughs and any delay in upgrade will actually benefit us as the new hires we have now will not be ready to upgrade anytime soon.

I'll grant them efficiency improvements in exchange for industry standard pay, rigs, retirement, scope, and LTD. I think it's a fair proposition.