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Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
(Post 2524655)
Actually, we were at the bottom of the industry among our peers. We didn't even have B-plan, and we were told over and over that we would NEVER have a B-plan at Southwest Airlines. TA1 only included 0.7% increase in 401k match. Our peers at Delta, United and American all had either 15 or 16% B-plan.
Well... 9-10 months later, after changing NC and our union leadership, we had industry-leading pay rates, until Delta and subsequently United with their me-too clause passed us, and we also got a B-plan. It all boils down to what you're willing to accept. Pay comes and goes... PBS was a major concession of the last decade, and you're giving it away for bringing you closer to industry standard? I also think you should read a little more about LTD at other airlines and see how things work elsewhere since many of you seem to be excited about it. Hint, you can and should do FAR better. As for unity... well, that's up to your leadership, how communicative they are, and how fired up they are. When we were in negotiations, we were getting something almost every day from the union. When over 1,000 pilots showed up for a picket in Dallas during blistering heat... you couldn't ignore it. Mind you, this is the biggest koolaid drinking pilot group in the industry. Strong leadership and defined goals. Do you have that? I don't know what to say to you guys. I'd like to see you engage in a pattern-based bargaining fashion, or at least get very close, but you seem to be going against the very lanyard many of you wear and it's puzzling, to say the least. We all expected to be giving up some of our work rules but not to such extent, it seems excessive. Don't forget, you have until the 28th to make up your mind or change your vote. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Neptune2004
(Post 2524683)
Your pay might have been low compared to your peers but it wasn’t NK low, especially the FO rates. Scope and LTD for you guys was pretty solid as well. Again all these things make the decision to shoot down a TA and wait for the next one much easier.
I’m against PBS but according to the surveys some people actually like pbs and I’ve found this to be the case with some people I talk to or fly with. As far as compensation goes, the pay needs to come up for some CA/FO’s in some longevities. The 10-12 captain rates are pretty industry standard. Unfortunately the Alaska arbitration put the cap on where the rates are for our peers. Will shooting down this TA be worth a small increase in compensation? PBS is here to stay I’m afraid. |
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
(Post 2524655)
Actually, we were at the bottom of the industry among our peers. We didn't even have B-plan, and we were told over and over that we would NEVER have a B-plan at Southwest Airlines. TA1 only included 0.7% increase in 401k match. Our peers at Delta, United and American all had either 15 or 16% B-plan.
Well... 9-10 months later, after changing NC and our union leadership, we had industry-leading pay rates, until Delta and subsequently United with their me-too clause passed us, and we also got a B-plan. It all boils down to what you're willing to accept. Pay comes and goes... PBS was a major concession of the last decade, and you're giving it away for bringing you closer to industry standard? I also think you should read a little more about LTD at other airlines and see how things work elsewhere since many of you seem to be excited about it. Hint, you can and should do FAR better. As for unity... well, that's up to your leadership, how communicative they are, and how fired up they are. When we were in negotiations, we were getting something almost every day from the union. When over 1,000 pilots showed up for a picket in Dallas during blistering heat... you couldn't ignore it. Mind you, this is the biggest koolaid drinking pilot group in the industry. Strong leadership and defined goals. Do you have that? I don't know what to say to you guys. I'd like to see you engage in a pattern-based bargaining fashion, or at least get very close, but you seem to be going against the very lanyard many of you wear and it's puzzling, to say the least. Awesome informed post!!! The question you are answering with your vote on this TA is, am I a low tier pilot or am I a equal pilot to my peers. This contract is not industry leading or standard on any section as a whole. You have fought to long and hard for this. Just remember Delta management and SWA management played major scare tactics and hinged aircraft orders on TA1. The NMB can’t and won’t force you to take a contract. The laws are set to force a further negotiation after a failed TA1 or to release for a strike. It’s that simple. WHAT WILL YOUR INDUSTRY PEERS THINK OF YOU IN 2 MONTHS WALKING THROUGH THE TERMINAL? WILL THEY SAY THOSE GUYS/GALS ARE INDUSTRY BOTTOM FEEDERS OR WILL THEY SAY YOU ARE INDUSTRY STANDARD. |
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
(Post 2524695)
Actually, our scope was solid. Our LTD STILL needs to be worked on and is one of the main reasons I voted no on our TA2. Yet, it's light years away from yours... and it shouldn't be. Yet, you're choosing to settle for it. You're also totally failing to see the retirement gain in our TA2 as opposed to TA1 and the effect it had on pilots.
Sure! Just like some people like to be choked, slapped, hogtied and whipped as part of their bedroom fun... It's not just PBS. Assuming you wear the 'Discount Fares, Not Discount Pilots' lanyard... do you think you'll live up to that if you vote YES? Only you can answer that... Spirit is a 112 plane operation. How was the contract and compensation at Southwest when they had 112? For years southwest subsidized their growth much like spirit is doing today with labor costs. I appreciate your insight and opinion but it’s really easy to be a 700+ airplane powerhouse and tell people what area their TA is lacking in and if you voted down your TA2 like you said you did, you were in the 16% and it just proves that no matter how good of a deal is, some pilots will never be happy. The fact is we’re bottom of the barrel now. To get everything we need to be industry standard across the board under 1 TA is next to impossible. The Company has shown the NMB they’ve thrown more than enough of money into this deal (wether we think so or not). They have the power to release us since we filed for mediation and under Trump administration that’ll never happen. |
Originally Posted by Beans
(Post 2524719)
Awesome informed post!!!
The question you are answering with your vote on this TA is, am I a low tier pilot or am I a equal pilot to my peers. This contract is not industry leading or standard on any section as a whole. You have fought to long and hard for this. Just remember Delta management and SWA management played major scare tactics and hinged aircraft orders on TA1. The NMB can’t and won’t force you to take a contract. The laws are set to force a further negotiation after a failed TA1 or to release for a strike. It’s that simple. WHAT WILL YOUR INDUSTRY PEERS THINK OF YOU IN 2 MONTHS WALKING THROUGH THE TERMINAL? WILL THEY SAY THOSE GUYS/GALS ARE INDUSTRY BOTTOM FEEDERS OR WILL THEY SAY YOU ARE INDUSTRY STANDARD. |
Originally Posted by Neptune2004
(Post 2524721)
I didn’t design the lanyard and no one asked me for my input, I wore it to show unity.
Spirit is a 112 plane operation. How was the contract and compensation at Southwest when they had 112? For years southwest subsidized their growth much like spirit is doing today with labor costs. I appreciate your insight and opinion but it’s really easy to be a 700+ airplane powerhouse and tell people what area their TA is lacking in and if you voted down your TA2 like you said you did, you were in the 16% and it just proves that no matter how good of a deal is, some pilots will never be happy. The fact is we’re bottom of the barrel now. To get everything we need to be industry standard across the board under 1 TA is next to impossible. The Company has shown the NMB they’ve thrown more than enough of money into this deal (wether we think so or not). They have the power to release us since we filed for mediation and under Trump administration that’ll never happen. ... and playing right into hands of the management who rightfully want you at the absolute lowest cost, and the mediator whose job is to lead and prod towards an agreement. You have a tentative agreement. If you vote yes, the management won because they got you for the absolute cheapest possible amount. As a shareholder, I’d definitely vote to give them a fat bonus, especially considering the feat they will have pulled in this market. The NMB will have also won because they ‘successfully mediated and brought to a conclusion another agreement.’ And that would leave Spirit pilots holding a bag... If you vote no, the management has to reach deeper and come up with a better solution. The mediator has a new baseline since clearly the previously mediated tentative agreement wasn’t good enough for the membership ratification and off you go from there. The shareholders and investors will also want this deal concluded as fast as possible because they don’t like FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) even though they like to spread it to get the best possible deal for themselves. That puts you, Spirit pilot, in a much better position. |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524674)
Take a deep breadth man, relax. If you are close to upgrade you’d be foolish (as of now IMO) to jump to SWA as a forever F/O.
And no one is mentioning that we're getting $0 in retro pay. I thought we were 'full retro or NO'? |
Originally Posted by Neptune2004
(Post 2524728)
Lmao I don’t participate in dick measuring contests. When I see a regional pilot or any other pilot from an airline with an inferior contract, I don’t think any less of them, if you do, then you’re an pompous ahole. I the end of the day, this TA gives improved pay for my family and I, job security and peace of mind. The scheduling section although new to spirit, is pretty industry standard. I keep the 4 days off and red/green system to drop or trade. At the end of the day it should be Spirit pilots who decide not anyone else.
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Originally Posted by Beans
(Post 2524746)
Well Neptune this post says it all for you. You are ok with being a discount bottom of your peers barrel pilot. It’s that simple. I hope you don’t wear the lanyards because your not willing to do what they say.
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And no one is mentioning that we're getting $0 in retro pay. I thought we were 'full retro or NO'?[/QUOTE]
Bingo Macjet. Unreal how many have completely turned face on what they said they wouldn’t vote for. |
Originally Posted by Beans
(Post 2524751)
Bingo Macjet. Unreal how many have completely turned face on what they said they wouldn’t vote for. |
Originally Posted by Stan Spadowski
(Post 2524635)
Vote no. Clean house with the NC MEC. Company will feel pressure this summer with lack of hiring (they will anyways if this passes, and new hires see that ****ty training pay), and stand our ground until a better, more industry standard TA is presented. Either way I think it’s time to clean house, as this TA is an embarrassment.........
BTW was at 2 picketing events.....and continue to wear the “ready to strike” lanyard |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524810)
Meh, Id rather intercourse over fellatio but I’ll certainly take fellatio over nothing ehhhhhhhhh
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Originally Posted by BillyBaroo
(Post 2524846)
And there is the problem. Afraid to stand up for what you think your worth. The I’ll take something now because it’s better than nothing. The epitome of what we wore around our necks that we weren’t discount pilots (sarcasm btw if you didn’t get it). If this TA is voted in, we will replace the “not a discount pilot” with the proverbial albatross of contract 2018 around our necks.
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Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524872)
Its “you’re” you ingrate, not “your”. You think you have it all figured out yet you can’t even tell the difference between your & you’re.
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Originally Posted by lowandslow
(Post 2524903)
Your probly really good at the, dodge ball.
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Originally Posted by Beans
(Post 2524719)
WHAT WILL YOUR INDUSTRY PEERS THINK OF YOU IN 2 MONTHS WALKING THROUGH THE TERMINAL? WILL THEY SAY THOSE GUYS/GALS ARE INDUSTRY BOTTOM FEEDERS OR WILL THEY SAY YOU ARE INDUSTRY STANDARD. http://c7.alamy.com/comp/F2R834/busi...ing-F2R834.jpg |
You’re right, lets turn down significant gains so our “peers” don’t shun us in the terminal.
SMH With the exception of Quotsautopilot, majority of “No” voters on here are chest thumping idiots |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524922)
You’re right, lets turn down significant gains
SMH Pay is where we were supposed to be 3O months ago. 1/6 of full retro. Abuse of Sect 25 LTD you need to pay for 9 day vac No RES drops PBS Min 2 lines of LCR/base weak scope You must be impressed with the 5 hrs of sick leave. You will need it more than ever! |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524907)
English, do you speak it?
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Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524810)
Meh, Id rather intercourse over fellatio but I’ll certainly take fellatio over nothing ehhhhhhhhh
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Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524872)
Its “you’re” you ingrate, not “your”. You think you have it all figured out yet you can’t even tell the difference between your & you’re.
|
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524922)
You’re right, lets turn down significant gains so our “peers” don’t shun us in the terminal.
SMH With the exception of Quotsautopilot, majority of “No” voters on here are chest thumping idiots |
Originally Posted by astral
(Post 2524933)
significant gains?????
Pay is where we were supposed to be 3O months ago. 1/6 of full retro. Abuse of Sect 25 LTD you need to pay for 9 day vac No RES drops PBS Min 2 lines of LCR/base weak scope You must be impressed with the 5 hrs of sick leave. You will need it more than ever! -abuse of Sec 25? Some of the stuff people are complaining about has been in the contract for years. The airport rescheduling is being blown out of proportion (still lucrative if happens) -LTD “pay up” to bring you up to 15k a year and is under $100/month FFS. Completley fair. -9 day VAC?, lol. Thats BARE MINIMUM, more days off will depend on seniority (KINDA LIKE NOW) -No RSV drops is fng garbage, wont argue that. ABSOLUTE GARBAGE -I welcome PBS, line bidding here is garbage, always has been and at least now those who want to waive 4-days off can -2 is the minimum for Long Call, we’ll see if they hopefully add more. Should have been based on % of lines but still a gain. -I wouldnt call SCOPE weak, its just not Ironclad like SWA. Wht we have no is horrendous - 5hrs of sick leave is better than 4 and so is increased Bank of 700 Pay rates arent earth shattering but our current rates are to blame. How many ALPA negotiated CBAs increased rates of 40% at DOS? |
Originally Posted by SourGrapes
(Post 2524944)
keep it up, your attitude is swinging more voters to a 'nay'----if you were flying the line now you would hear it. lol
Remember the IPAD LOA?, lol |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524922)
With the exception of Quotsautopilot, majority of “No” voters on here are chest thumping idiots |
Originally Posted by ForTheWin
(Post 2524821)
And there you have it. Despite what the MEC has asked, you continue to do your own thing. Another fine example of the "I do what's best for me" crowd. How are those 100+ hour credit months treating you?
Average 50-70 credit hours a month dick. Not part of the FLL crowd Next question? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
Originally Posted by SourGrapes
(Post 2524944)
keep it up, your attitude is swinging more voters to a 'nay'----if you were flying the line now you would hear it. lol
NOT ONE SINGLE person is changing their vote based on APC. NOBODY |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524945)
-Retro is disappointing, still almost 70k for me
-abuse of Sec 25? Some of the stuff people are complaining about has been in the contract for years. The airport rescheduling is being blown out of proportion (still lucrative if happens) -LTD “pay up” to bring you up to 15k a year and is under $100/month FFS. Completley fair. -9 day VAC?, lol. Thats BARE MINIMUM, more days off will depend on seniority (KINDA LIKE NOW) -No RSV drops is fng garbage, wont argue that. ABSOLUTE GARBAGE -I welcome PBS, line bidding here is garbage, always has been and at least now those who want to waive 4-days off can -2 is the minimum for Long Call, we’ll see if they hopefully add more. Should have been based on % of lines but still a gain. -I wouldnt call SCOPE weak, its just not Ironclad like SWA. Wht we have no is horrendous - 5hrs of sick leave is better than 4 and so is increased Bank of 700 Pay rates arent earth shattering but our current rates are to blame. How many ALPA negotiated CBAs increased rates of 40% at DOS? |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524810)
Meh, Id rather intercourse over fellatio but I’ll certainly take fellatio over nothing ehhhhhhhhh
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Originally Posted by dotslash
(Post 2525020)
Better to say you will take fat chick today instead wait for hot chick tomorrow.
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Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2524945)
-Retro is disappointing, still almost 70k for me
-abuse of Sec 25? Some of the stuff people are complaining about has been in the contract for years. The airport rescheduling is being blown out of proportion (still lucrative if happens) -LTD “pay up” to bring you up to 15k a year and is under $100/month FFS. Completley fair. -9 day VAC?, lol. Thats BARE MINIMUM, more days off will depend on seniority (KINDA LIKE NOW) -No RSV drops is fng garbage, wont argue that. ABSOLUTE GARBAGE -I welcome PBS, line bidding here is garbage, always has been and at least now those who want to waive 4-days off can -2 is the minimum for Long Call, we’ll see if they hopefully add more. Should have been based on % of lines but still a gain. -I wouldnt call SCOPE weak, its just not Ironclad like SWA. Wht we have no is horrendous - 5hrs of sick leave is better than 4 and so is increased Bank of 700 Pay rates arent earth shattering but our current rates are to blame. How many ALPA negotiated CBAs increased rates of 40% at DOS? You are just more willing to accept the company will "hopefully" act in good faith. I do NOT believe they will! |
Originally Posted by Stan Spadowski
(Post 2524983)
Average 50-70 credit hours a month dick. Not part of the FLL crowd Next question?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Riiiighhtt! Don't have to be part of the long-sleeve brigade in FLL to be a "me first, deal maker"...the fact you do your own thing w/ the lanyard speaks volumes. Next deflection? Look man, it's cool. Do your own thing against the request of the MEC/ NC. But don't come on here acting like you're holding out for everyone. You're trying to do what's best for you and trying to convince everyone else you know best. Thanks anyway, I'm not buying what you're selling. #sameteam |
Originally Posted by astral
(Post 2525038)
The bold items actually prove that we agree more than we disagree...
You are just more willing to accept the company will "hopefully" act in good faith. I do NOT believe they will! |
Originally Posted by ForTheWin
(Post 2525040)
Riiiighhtt! Don't have to be part of the long-sleeve brigade in FLL to be a "me first, deal maker"...the fact you do your own thing w/ the lanyard speaks volumes.
Next deflection? |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2525042)
Fair enough.
Don't you believe we can do better by June? |
Originally Posted by astral
(Post 2525057)
Still a yes vote ?
Don't you believe we can do better by June? Do I believe we deserve a better T/A? FFS OF COURSE I do. The problem for me is when its all said and done I dont think the gains would be able to make up for time lost. I just dont see that happening. And for the record im absolutely disgusted with the inability to drop RSV days post PBS. That is the one thing almost swayed me to a NO vote. |
Negligent accounting
Originally Posted by ForTheWin
(Post 2525040)
Riiiighhtt! Don't have to be part of the long-sleeve brigade in FLL to be a "me first, deal maker"...the fact you do your own thing w/ the lanyard speaks volumes.
Next deflection? Look man, it's cool. Do your own thing against the request of the MEC/ NC. But don't come on here acting like you're holding out for everyone. You're trying to do what's best for you and trying to convince everyone else you know best. Thanks anyway, I'm not buying what you're selling. #sameteam I’m wearing the lanyard the union gave me dumb ass. Can’t argue with stupidity..... done with you Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2525070)
Do I believe we deserve a better T/A? FFS OF COURSE I do. The problem for me is when its all said and done I dont think the gains would be able to make up for time lost. I just dont see that happening.
And for the record im absolutely disgusted with the inability to drop RSV days post PBS. That is the one thing almost swayed me to a NO vote. |
Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE
(Post 2525035)
Shes not Fat and the “hot chick” tomorrow could be a tranny........
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