Boy aren’t you a snow flake!! Cry cause people disagree and resort to name calling!! You are a POS!!!

Understood nor can I blame you

You Hypocrite

It’s spelled “completely fair” not “Completley fair.“. Before you accuse others of punctuation and spelling errors (your statement above are filled with), make sure your own house is in order knucklehead. By the way, look up the term ingrate. It means ungrateful, and had zero relevance, you ignoramus.

I’ve heard that argument more than once about getting more vacation off if you’re more senior. Makes no sense. Right now you have a week you can bid lines to conflict (or not) with. Even slide if you want. To imply this (+9 days) is something only possible with good seniority now is completely false unless your vacation happens to be the week between Christmas and NYE.

Upvote for being reasonable

How many Non-Bankruptcy ALPA negotiated CBA's gutted QOL by 40% at DOS?

How long have you been at SWA? I’m not sure what your LTD entails but our proposed LTD has a max own occupation benefit of $15k with 5 years of medical coverage. If yours is better than that bravo but this is a huge improvement for us over current book. You also mentioned DC retirement... this TA gets us 11% DC date of signing maxing out at 15% DC end of contract which is pretty similar to what you guys achieved in your last contract. As far as QOL goes, outside of your 6 hour daily rig (which is huge) I’m pretty sure our rescheduling and reserve language is far superior to SWA’s and we maintain that advantage in this TA despite some give backs. Our pay rates are obviously disappointing but as has been mentioned previously we were hamstrung by the Alaska arbitration and the NMB.

At the end of the day there are huge gains in this TA. 43% average pay increase, LTD, vastly improved scope, DC retirement, improved rig package, and retention of key QOL provisions. I’m also pro PBS as line bidding is archaic and agreeing to PBS moved the ball forward on a vastly improved rig package for us. I’m not sure in what world that is considered a failure. Maybe if SWA pilots didn’t undercut the entire industry on wages for 30+ years until 9/11 came along I could take your criticism a little more seriously.

At the end of the day this is a business decision. Short of another $15-$20/hr, profit sharing, and full retro there isn’t much more to be gained here. I’m not going to pretend like I’m not disappointed that we couldn’t achieve all of those goals this round but I’m also realistic. I’m not willing to gamble the other gains made here in order to possibly get an extra $20k/year in 12-18 months. If a SWA pilot wants to look down on me for that decision I couldn’t care less. I’d love to see how our proposed compensation package compares to SWA’s compensation package in relation to the rest of the industry when they were of equal size. I’m willing to bet it’s not close.

SWA pilots should be proud of what they’ve achieved. Your narrow body compensation is now on par with the legacy’s and your scope is the envy of the industry. You guys work your as$es off but at least you’re paid well for it. Bravo... well done. Let’s keep things in perspective though. This has been 50 years in the making. Certainly didn’t happen overnight or in one contract cycle for that matter.

Just keeping RES drops is worth waiting till June.
Any rule saved is for the rest of our time at NK.
They may be a$$$...les with huge egos but they have to answer to a board which will not allow this to continue with no end.

Lmao JUNE????? I assume you mean June 2019. What are you smoking and may I have some?

He was talking June of 2020.

I know exactly what it means, thats why I used it, lol. You are constantly bashing ALPA and this T/A, failing to recognize ANY OF THE GAINS. Ungrateful=Ingrate, lol.

Why should we have to wait another 4 years to be brought up to the low end of industry-standard retirement compensation? Do you know how much money we're missing out on with this delayed gratification 401k deal over the course of your career?

Yeah... a lot less than it’s going to cost us to hold out for another 1-3 years hoping to get a higher starting DC percentage at DOS.

Very nice summary, except you're missing out on a couple of big-ticket items. You're scoffing at $15-20/hr more and profit sharing. You do understand how much money you're leaving on the table by just this little gem (PS), don't you? Our non-hustling captains are making around 300k per year in eligible wages (meaning we don't count NEC overages or previous year's PS in eligible wage calculation). Under the current contract, that PS meant 13.2% for 2016 and 11.3% for 2017. Using 300k as a baseline figure, that's another 34-39k in compensation left on the table. Throw in the amount you scoffed at, and you've made some bean counter a very happy person. You will have essentially left 55-60k/year on the table for the duration of your contract, and that's comparing you to us, which is what you seem to like to do. As I said before, I would expect that the management will be rewarded with a very nice bonus after you folks vote this in. They will have deserved it.

Since you brought up reserve, are you familiar with ours? You make it sound like you are. I'm not familiar with yours. In what way is your reserve superior to ours? For example, here we don't have a defined monthly guarantee anymore. That went away with the last contract... now we get min pay per day. If we get jerked around on reserve i.e. reassigned, for the most part, you fall under the same rules as a line holder which means you get premium pay for many reassignments. To put it in perspective, many reserves here credit around 115-125 TFP per month while flying about 50 hours or so ballpark. Translated to per-hour basis, that's around 100-109 hours of pay.

Also, our reserve work days do not exceed 16 days per month which means a minimum of 15 days off on 31 day months or 14 days off on a 30 day month. No airport reserve here either. Our bummer is... we can't drop reserve days, though nowadays people will pick it up from you if you want to give it away. I'm a lineholder, but I pick up reserve blocks these days because it's a decent way to make extra $$$$.

You're also correct in that this has been years in the making. What you fail to realize is that this pilot group tends to be the biggest bunch of koolaid drinkers and we almost got suckered in by TA1... thankfully, we passed on that turd and 9-10 months later, we ended up with what we have. In the end, you control your destiny, not the mediator or her empty threats. Also, I never said I was gonna look down on you if you pass this. What I did say was if you were going to look at your total package and "gains" with this TA and then look at your lanyard and wonder if you were still a discount pilot.

From what I see, we still have your former captains starting here as probationary FO's and more are applying as a result of this TA. I don't know... if it's as good as you say, why would they be leaving or looking to leave?

I agree, I’ve been junior in base and senior in base. I have never had less than 12 days off for vacation, and I have never had to use a slide. Also, when I submitted my bids, I knew approximately what days my vacation would conflict with.

You have no idea if or CAs are going to leave once this T/A gets implemented. I highly doubt more than a handful will, and if they do It probably has more to do with SWA bases

There shouldn't be ANY leaving if this thing is as good as some of you folks are advertising, bases or no bases. Spirit is a major airline. The mere fact that there are captains leaving to start over on the bottom somewhere else should at least raise some eyebrows...

He hasn't bashed ALPA. I've only seen a few posts. If anything, he is bashing you and your grammar. Go back and read some of the posts. His concern, like many, was to the extent certain items were being given up. So please, stop with the BS and lies of what you think people are saying.

Folks leave SW for greener pastures too, what’s your point.

Negligent accounting
 

It’s relatively common for first year FO’s pretty much anywhere, but major airline captains leaving to start over on the bottom somewhere else aside from maybe 1 oddball here and there?

I've heard the current vacation slide mentioned several times on these boards implying that it's the reason you can get so many vacation days off in a row. The current CBA only allows you to slide into a conflict with concurrence from crew planning. The real difference between what we have now and what we would see under PBS is that you can currently bid a line that touches multiple pairings with your scheduled vacation week. This combined with the 4 days off makes it easy to stretch a week of vacation into 2 or more with minimal impact to your vacation bank. And this is without permission from crew planning, and without additional flying added to your "off" days. This translates to a lot of soft credit and days off in vacation months 2-5 months a year now that we'll be losing with PBS.

Yes that was kinda my point though I did throw slide in there. I’ve never tried using it as I get the conflicts w/o before getting to those choices.

And they've suggest you stop wearing both the red and the green. Who's the dumb ass? Nice try...done with you. The clearly obtuse can't be reasoned with.

Anybody for this TA or who is defending it just needs to use this link below and ingest the current proposal numbers and rules. You will find out very quickly its industry bottom not industry standard.

http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/jetblue2/Contract%20Comparison/JetBlue%20Contract%20Comparison.pdf

Pretty freaking pathetic

Did you not look at anything on the TA website? How about the broadcast of the roadshow?

For those that feel a yes vote is a prudent financial decision- have you ever thought how you may feel in our next negotiating cycle when we are grossly deficient compared to our peers in compensation and QOL? What do you think our leverage will be at that point?

Will you use the same "logic" that accepting an unacceptable contract next time around is somehow ok because we'd be operating under such a sh** contract? All this because of a vote in 2018 that seemed like a good idea at the time?

Have you thought about how our future NC might be able to encourage Spirit to pay us Industry Standard when we have no work rules to sell off and we operate within a segment of the industry that you endorsed as low tier in 2018?

A few cycles of this and you'll be ready for retirement- with a net worth that will likely be 7 figures lower than it should and a few thousand extra nights away from your family.

Ladies and gentlemen- we aren't negotiating for a one time 70k pre-tax "bonus." Your career depends more on this one vote than you realize.

My point exactly.^
What will we have to give up to get raises in 5-7 years, when ALL our QOL will be gone?
This QOL will be gone forever, not just 5 years!
Look beyond the $

No roadshow required to see we should vote YES so we can be not the worst paid... for a few minutes until b6 gets cba. At least we are competitive with emb175 rates.

Here is clip from LAS roadshow:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/ac80...itemid=3814012

Another gross exaggeration. The large majority of no voters come up with the most absolutely far fetched reasons like the above to try and sell their no vote. Our rates now, other than first year, are higher than 175 rates, moron.

And they accuse of yes voters of voting yes out of fear. The same exact thing they’re using to tell you no.

The difference is, one side uses facts and logic.

A Men Brotha! No vote was just casted here!

Well, Mr 290, look up competitive deffinition. I hate to school native speaker but you will be surprised. You like facts and logic? I just read 87 pages of facts and logic prepared by ALPA for B6. Guess alpa got that one wrong, but alpa got ours right?

By the way, you are very good on unicycle.

I never understood the idea that we have to give something up for a raise or better quality of life. That's what everyone says before negotiations... "we shouldn't give anything up". But if that's the case, then why are you guys saying that in 5 years we won't have any rules to give up?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Answer will be same as always. Go to roadshow, ask question, educate yourself

Was JetBlue ALPA in our negotiations?

Financials come from same national as ours. Probably written by same team, so yes. Go to alpa clinic. Ask question. Educate yourself.

I glanced over it. It reinforces just how incredibly far behind we are right now, and how much closer we are with this deal. If you can’t see that, then you need to educate yourself.

But let’s vote this down, and see where we’ll be after a couple more years of negotiations. Do you know about compounded interest? The money we earn from this and invest over our careers will likely never be made whole.

I did!!!!! I learned we are more better competitive than frontier pilots!!!!

https://i.imgur.com/dchEYXr.jpg

ok, I see problem. You are ok with us being lowest paid laughing stock pilot group for next 8-10 years. I would rather fight now and collect rewards for rest of career -compound interest. So.. I can not vote anyway, so when this passes I can tell man in mirror that I did not do this.