How’s the view way up there on your pedestal?

 

This is one reason why some still quit even after the TA was approved. Some companies just treat their employees better, simple as that. It isn't all about the money. Spirit payscale actually measures up reasonably well against other 737/A320 payscales if you're factoring in a 5 yr upgrade vs. a 10 yr upgrade elsewhere. Money being nearly equal (especially if going from year 4+ at spirit back down to year 1 elsewhere), those other considerations come into play.

Taking a paycut to go from flying the bus to flying a guppy, giving up a possible 5 yr upgrade for a 10 yr upgrade? Yea, that's a thing because you can tell if one company looks out for its employees and the other one doesn't.

Fun fact - that other airline with a similar payscale has apparently had only 2 training failures in the last 930ish new hires. That's a statement on the value they place on their employees from day 0. Interesting contrast in company priorities.

 

With the new training material soon coming out I know the Oral failure rates will fall. The guys have done a very nice job and first class. It's good stuff!

 

I still find it insulting for an airline with such a vocal ambition and growth plan to refuse to provide health insurance for 90 days, and alike that other cargo company, not pay their new hires in training (because $1,000 before tax + $700 per diem/month for 90 days is equivalent to not being paid. it's coffee money, doesn't support a living), what you would expect from Mesa or Great Lakes.

It's a big hurdle to new hires and really doesn't express any warm welcome feeling.

I still find training unrealistic for an airline that wants to be considered a major player, having low time ex-regional FO's rushed through training just to save money on sim time, while other similar airlines take time to train you properly, in a timely manner, is surprising.

Not only being rushed through but having to learn flows and call outs for both seats and go through training in the left seat to end up having a check ride in the right seat is a bit... cost efficient but counter intuitive somehow.

But, hey, it works. So why change anything

 

Pretty accurate except the check ride is also left seat. The changes that need to be made are cultural and management is who has control over that. I don't think training is unrealistic but it is only designed to get you trained to a legal standard. That said anyone who fails the oral in my opinion doesn't deserve to be here in the first place because besides lack of effort there is no reason to fail it with all of the information available in the oral exam guide and other material.

 

I think he program needs some changing yes, but it’s not unrealistic for those coming from a 121 background. Guys that only have 135/91 backgrounds are in for a wake up call.

Having a good instructor also helps. I had the same instructor all the way through and I’m sure I would’ve had some retrains if it weren’t for him. I think most of our instructors want to do a good job but they have to take a set of boxes to check and make their own lesson out of it. Some are better than others at it and having continuity helps immensely imo.

If they add the extra Sim I keep hearing about and give the instructors a detailed syllabus it would go a long way. And fixing the garbage FTDs.

In the end, getting experienced 121 guys and making small changes to the program would almost eliminate the failures.

 

I wouldn’t bash the 91/135 guys as much. I think that’s a bit ignorant to label them as second class. I was both (121/135) before I came to NK and my training was great. Most of the failures come from previous 121.... the one that didn’t make it in our class was 121. I think it boils down to how prepared you are when you show up and how serious you take training. It’s not hard if you study....




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Don't get your panties in a wad. His assessment was accurate. I was a 135/91 guy and a former TCE for a big box 13/91 training center. It is a major difference in training and expectations. I found it easier than some of my peers due to my .mil background and not because of my 'your check cleared let's get you your type rating' background.

Straight 91/135/91k guys need to be aware that it's a whole other animal (forgive the F9 reference) over here. You will have to study and not expect a 50 minute coffee break between 10 minutes of class.

 

Guys with a background of customer training MAY have issues. Real deal 135 operators or 91k? Hardly.

 

I came from a vary wide background. I went to a 141 school, but taught in a 61 environment. I’ve had numerous 135 jobs, 121 (with PIC) and have been in 91 and 91k. The problem I see with this training program is a lack of standards. Some of the instructors are really good, a few are really bad and seem to have a chip on their shoulder. I witnessed instructors giving information that was contradictory with other Instructors. I seem to remember something in FOI about negative learning. Maybe it’s just me and I expected this airline to have a higher level of training. It wasn’t all bad, but there is a lot of room for improvement. Trying to cram this tracing schedule into the footprint layed out by corporate is a shame. It’s a disservice to the students and ultimately not a very effective way of doing things. To slam the students on here and make it sound like the company has no responsibility is dumb. It starts at the top and works it’s way down. Are there any other airlines that give 4 sims and a type ride. I don’t know if any