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-   -   DoesSpirit discriminate against military guys (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/114777-doesspirit-discriminate-against-military-guys.html)

Wang Wei 07-04-2018 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by PotatoChip (Post 2626984)
So you are suggesting that Spirit openly didn’t hire this pilot because of their military status?

Here’s another take: I understand that Southwest routinely asks pilots if they called in sick to make it to the interview. They then call their HR to see if they were telling the truth. They don’t like people who abuse sick time, and check for integrity.

This seems similar. If you are on MIL leave, that time is to perform MIL functions, NOT shop around for a new CIV job.

Any properly lawyered up HR department will, in response to a written request, provide the following (and no more):

Date of Hire
Date of Separation
Beginning Wage
Ending Wage
Job Title

..... and is most definitely NOT going to take a random phone call asking about someone's sick leave usage

Alphafloor 07-04-2018 09:14 AM


Originally Posted by Wayst (Post 2626507)
Had a friend interview with Spirit recently. He is a military pilot and a part 121 pilot. He said the interview went great except the head of HR scrutinized him for being on military leave. He said she was very aggressive and annoyed that he would work for his 121 carrier and then go on military leave for a year. He said he explained that it wasn't meant to be for a year but he had been extended for circumstances out of his control and he was about to return to his 121 company. A few days later we was sent an email saying he did not receive the job. He is really bummed because he was really excited to work for Spirit.

I Understand that 121 carriers don't like guys to drop mil leave for extended periods of time, but is HR allowed to ask these questions during the interview? Does this sound like discrimination? Just like HR cannot ask a female if she has ever taken maturity leave or if she is planning on getting pregnant and taking maturity leave.

What do you guys/gals think?

I’ll tell you what I think. I think its good to know I’m not going to ever have to fly with “your friend”. I appreciate and thank “your friend” for his service but his integrity and intelligence is obviously in doubt. I also think “your friend” is a little too smug and probably would not be a good fit here anyhow and that’s why he didn’t get hired. That’s what I think.

goinaround 07-04-2018 10:14 AM

You know if the Guard/Reserve brings you on for a couple months....you get to use your leave (vacation) that you've earned. Some of you guys think he's criminally insane to take a day off to go to an interview. I don't see any problem with that. Explaining why you've worked somewhere for 4 years and only have 101 hours would be the issue.......

sixpack 07-04-2018 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by Wayst (Post 2626507)
Had a friend interview with Spirit recently. He is a military pilot and a part 121 pilot. He said the interview went great except the head of HR scrutinized him for being on military leave. He said she was very aggressive and annoyed that he would work for his 121 carrier and then go on military leave for a year. He said he explained that it wasn't meant to be for a year but he had been extended for circumstances out of his control and he was about to return to his 121 company. A few days later we was sent an email saying he did not receive the job. He is really bummed because he was really excited to work for Spirit.

I Understand that 121 carriers don't like guys to drop mil leave for extended periods of time, but is HR allowed to ask these questions during the interview? Does this sound like discrimination? Just like HR cannot ask a female if she has ever taken maturity leave or if she is planning on getting pregnant and taking maturity leave.

What do you guys/gals think?




I highly doubt he didn't get the job because he was on military leave. I am sure there was something else, but if HR was openly critical about him being on mil leave than that is how he perceived the interview went. It doesn't matter if HR had a good reason not to hire him, if there is a small amount of perception that discrimination took place than HR can be in the wrong.

An option is to contact the Employer Support for Guard/Reserve (ESGR). They are an educational group (not enforcement group) that will talk to the HR at Spirit about USERRA Laws. And Yes USERRA does protect and military member from being discriminated for military affiliation during an initial hiring process. I doubt anything will come of it, but it may prevent HR from asking those line of questions in future interviews.

DickBurns 07-04-2018 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by goinaround (Post 2627689)
You know if the Guard/Reserve brings you on for a couple months....you get to use your leave (vacation) that you've earned. Some of you guys think he's criminally insane to take a day off to go to an interview. I don't see any problem with that. Explaining why you've worked somewhere for 4 years and only have 101 hours would be the issue.......

I think what many are saying is, that wasn't the issue.

flyboyike 07-04-2018 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by lvngdadrm (Post 2626991)
Sandi and her team do a phenomenal job filling the flight deck with pilots that make my trips safe and enjoyable. This is a Herculean task, considering she’s managed to quadruple our flight staffing in less than seven years with no immediate end in sight... all with ULCC minded limited resources.

Amen! Especially since part of that quadrupling was hiring me.

Excargodog 07-04-2018 02:14 PM


Originally Posted by Wayst (Post 2626507)
Had a friend interview with Spirit recently. He is a military pilot and a part 121 pilot. Does this sound like discrimination?

What do you guys/gals think?

It is ABSOLUTELY discrimination. By DEFINITION:

In plain English, to "discriminate" means to distinguish, single out, or make a distinction. In everyday life, when faced with more than one option, we discriminate in arriving at almost every decision we make. But in the context of civil rights law, unlawful discrimination refers to unfair or unequal treatment of an individual (or group) based on certain characteristics, including:

Age
Disability
Ethnicity
Gender
Marital status
National origin
Race,
Religion, and
Sexual orientation.


Lawful vs. Unlawful Discrimination

Not all types of discrimination will violate federal and/or state laws that prohibit discrimination. Some types of unequal treatment are perfectly legal, and cannot form the basis for a civil rights case alleging discrimination.
........

Unfortunately for your "friend", an airline choosing to discriminate between a military member with good judgment and a military member with pi$$ poor judgment is not in the least illegal.

Wayst 07-04-2018 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2627798)
It is ABSOLUTELY discrimination. By DEFINITION:

In plain English, to "discriminate" means to distinguish, single out, or make a distinction. In everyday life, when faced with more than one option, we discriminate in arriving at almost every decision we make. But in the context of civil rights law, unlawful discrimination refers to unfair or unequal treatment of an individual (or group) based on certain characteristics, including:

Age
Disability
Ethnicity
Gender
Marital status
National origin
Race,
Religion, and
Sexual orientation.


Lawful vs. Unlawful Discrimination

Not all types of discrimination will violate federal and/or state laws that prohibit discrimination. Some types of unequal treatment are perfectly legal, and cannot form the basis for a civil rights case alleging discrimination.
........

Unfortunately for your "friend", an airline choosing to discriminate between a military member with good judgment and a military member with pi$$ poor judgment is not in the least illegal.

The USERRA is not just for protection from current employer. The USERRA clearly states that an Employer cannot discriminate against and individual for their military affiliation during an initial hiring process. This is federal law.

Silver02ex 07-04-2018 04:27 PM


Originally Posted by Wayst (Post 2627851)
The USERRA is not just for protection from current employer. The USERRA clearly states that an Employer cannot discriminate against and individual for their military affiliation during an initial hiring process. This is federal law.

Like others have said, your "friend" is assuming that he didn't get the job because of his military status. How do you know that he didn't messed up on the other parts of the interview? I would say that 50% of my interview was graded from the panel and the other 50% was from the admin girls who were observing us while others were doing the panel. Maybe he said the wrong thing when he thought no one was looking. You seem to be focus on this legality issue, however if you know anything about Spirit's HR. You would know that they do great job of hiring the people who would be a great fit for this pilot group (your "friend" wasn't one of them), and military of not has nothing to do with it.

sflpilot 07-04-2018 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by Silver02ex (Post 2627870)
Like others have said, your "friend" is assuming that he didn't get the job because of his military status. How do you know that he didn't messed up on the other parts of the interview? I would say that 50% of my interview was graded from the panel and the other 50% was from the admin girls who were observing us while others were doing the panel. Maybe he said the wrong thing when he thought no one was looking. You seem to be focus on this legality issue, however if you know anything about Spirit's HR. You would know that they do great job of hiring the people who would be a great fit for this pilot group (your "friend" wasn't one of them), and military of not has nothing to do with it.

How do you know that he didn’t messed up? Please.


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