SoFloFlyer and Justabusdriver are FOs who are actively trying to leave NK, it seems. So their perspectives vs those of us seeing the difficulties on the line with a lot of the new hires, differ. If their biggest gripe are CAs who can’t connect to our inflight internet (not sure why anyone is trying to connect), but if that’s your current gripe, lucky you.

But there is a common theme on this subject; FOs hired in the last year or so are the ones saying “help the guys, it’s not a big deal” and CAs are the ones saying “it gets tiresome.”

Easy to just say “help them out, it’s not a big deal,” but I know I sure feel like single pilot without backup more now than ever before, that usually isn’t a great thing in this profession. It isn’t they (new FOs) don’t want to help, 99% do, it’s they don’t have the foundation to be much of a help. I want to speak fluent French when I go to Europe, but 2 years in high school only gets me so far.

Again, the guys we hire have been very nice guys to work with; but man has it become a butt kicking dealing with NKs lack of everything out on the line, compounded by our new lessened hiring requirements.

I didn’t say help them out. I said flying with 1500hr new hires is the new reality for spirit captains and pretty much every other LCC. Stop *****ing about it and learn to accept it. Complaining for months about it is getting old. If anything blame spirit for the lack of quality training and letting people slide through when they probably shouldn’t have.

I’m not sure what trying to leave spirit has to do with anything in this discussion. Seems like everytime someone says that disagrees with you all you do is check their post history to see they don’t want to bleed yellow and die with spirit. Just more salt from someone who’s upset they got stuck at spirit.

“Stuck at Spirit”. Haha. You realize any of us can leave at any time for a legacy, right?

And people looking to bail has everything to do with this issue. Because people bailing (don’t blame them) is what’s causing the issues with hiring. And because people are sitting in cruise wondering when Delta will call, and can they get the 777 after a year, really doesn’t suggest they are too committed to learning the airplane they are currently sitting in.

Agree... Not interested in a couple of new FOs thoughts on this subject. They are closer to the problem, not the solution. And they aren't on the other side of the cockpit with these guys/gals, having to take up their slack. And like so many things in this business, they don't yet know what they don't yet know.

For those in the left seat, how many sitting to your right say they are leaving or trying to if they are honest? Are you flying with more senior fos or jr ones? I’m in a fairly senior fo base and it seems I haven’t moved upwards on the bud packet for months

From what I’ve gathered chatting CAs and other FOs I know, the more senior FOs, ones bypassing upgrade, so say 3-5 years at spirit that are sticking around. They value the QOL. It’s the 1-3 year FOs that are bailing. Still new enough where they haven’t built up that much seniority and maybe they can’t/haven’t been able to manipulate their schedule as they thought or that flexibility isn’t as important to them.

Me trying to actively leave doesn’t play into this at all. If NK was going to stay NK, it probably would’ve been a different convo entirely. The reality is JB folks like the abuse and we like to live life outside of the flight deck. Besides the point though lol

I get why CAs gripe about it. I’m not ignorant of that fact. I get it completely, but complaining about it doesn’t help. I remember being lost in the sauce with comms when I was at my regional. Not because I couldn’t handle comms, but I didn’t know the first thing about ramp and metering. I could read back an app clearance, but everything else before that was foreign (albeit, it doesn’t take long to figure out). ATL or ORD on the ground can be a handful for anyone going in on their first time.

I hear the complaints on here about comms, but a lot of CAs on the line don’t complain too much about CFIs. It’s usually 135 guys that tend to struggle longer. So this whole comms thing took me by a bit of a surprise.

You reek of arrogance, man. Relax.

I find this to be accurate as well. A lot of people I talk to don’t want to see how this merger plays out. People usually mention that if they have to work as hard as a legacy pilot, they want ti be compensated like a legacy pilot.

On the side of it, senior folks here say they would bail too if they had 1-3 years of seniority. It’s definitely interesting times right now and way too many variables at play

Nah, that’s just the smell of stale cheese it’s and a #4 box.

Personally I don’t even ask. I assume most FOs are tired of being asked and getting told “you should go” or “why leave, legacy airline work rules suck,” and then they have to smile and listen to the guy in the left seat give their thoughts on their career plans.

I figure each FO has a network of family and friends who are better discussing it with versus me; and simply, it isn’t my business.

Says the guy who gets to look across the cockpit and find an experienced pilot... Wish we were all so lucky.

Ignorance is bliss

1) There’s an underlying assumption that I am somehow a 1500 hour hire at NK. I am not.

2) All I did was instruct and then go to a regional. Also not the case.

3) You’re salty at a situation that won’t be fixed any time soon.

4) Boomer CAs are by far some of the worst people to fly with, not the young folks.

I take a different approach to it…. I ask “when’s your class date at xxxx <-insert legacy???” I’d say at least 75% of those under 2 years have an interview, waiting on a class, or have an actual class date. My batting average on the right legacy guess is about 66% correct.

The ones less than 2-ish years that are staying either have a nice side-gig and truly want the work rules, or are on an E3 visa.

I'm VERY impressed.

Knew you would be :rolleyes: Glad I could impress the almighty Bluedriver :cool:

Ah, got it. You are being responsible... Even if you know that the info they ask for is really not the info they need, because that's not your responsibility.
And when someone questions if that is the best way, you throw a hissy fit.
Take a chill pill buddy.

I don’t ask the FO’s I fly with if they are leaving, it’s none of my business what they do career-wise outside of my flight deck. If they want to talk about it, cool, but think it also sets a bad tone when those who want to be here to start out the banter that way. That being said, my anecdotal experience over the past several months is that fewer guys are proudly chirping about the interview or class date they have at a legacy, and more talk about how happy they are here. I haven’t flown with an FO who has told me they planned to leave in several months. We’ve both flown with equally small slices of the pie, so it’s tough to extrapolate that out to a general junior FO sentiment.

And the seniority system tends to bias that as well. IOE excepted, the senior CAs tend to fly with the senior FOs because they both tend to get awarded the better schedules. But those FOs are also the best paid and with the best QOL, hence the most to lose stepping back to $100K and a crashpad in EWR or LAX. And even if it would be a faster NB upgrade sometimes, they’d still be junior to thousands of pilots and on reserve in EWR or LAX even longer.

Giving up a lineholder slot anywhere has costs. Giving up a senior lineholder slot at NK - while it will pay off in the long run (at least if you are young enough) - is more difficult. I don’t think we actually lose many senior FOs or lineholding CAs. The bulk of the attrition seems to come in the first 1-2 years.

I always figured 40 or younger, and I would have tried to get to a legacy. I always thought in terms of giving up millions over a few more years of pain was worth my situation.The equation is more difficult with the potential benefits of the JCBA. Everyone has to make the call for themselves.

In my case, years of crappy reserve in ATL, would have prevented weekly Sunday lunch with my in laws. Now that has value in my world.

it wasn’t long ago that being 40-45 was the youngest in a new hire class at a major. Not sure where this magic 40 number comes from? If you went to go, go. I think if you’re under 60 it could make sense for you.

I'm sure it's possible do a breakeven analysis based just on pay rates vs years of service, but the industry was pretty dismal when I was in my early 40's. We had TWA, AA and a few DAL guys in classes before 9/11, then it got really ugly.

Not to mention, having a few years at Spirit on your resume was like showing up for an interview with a face tattoo and a nose ring. They knew about the Mack Attack et al., heck, it came out in the Washington Post before our DO found out about it. To answer your question 20-25 years of seniority is just a nice career.

I just read your last sentence and agree under 60? Sure it could.

Hey guys, thinking of applying. How long would it take to get DTW or ORD as a new FO at Spirit?

Not long at all. Don’t know exact dates, but it’s something like 4-6 months from DOH?

More than likely you'll be able to hold ORD by the time you OE. DTW potentially 1-3 months after. First month after OE you'll have a relief line so you should be able to drop trips and pick up in your desired base.

Never having flown with him, I have a memory of a compass card that read “Beware the Mack”

JR FO DOH:
ORD - 2/27/23
DTW - 1/16/23

Plan on 3 months of training + a 1-2 month relief line

How about getting IAH or FLL/MIA as a new hire?

Faster than ORD or DTW. By the time you bid for the first time in PBS you would have FLL for sure, most likely could hold IAH as well

Hi all, I start with the company in September and have some questions about the LAS pilot base

1) how long would it take to hold a line? how about Long call? - Training is 2 months plus a 2-3 week to get IOE done, then a month of a relief line. so thats about 4 months on property without actually sitting reserve. so with that being considered can someone give me the average time currently it takes to hold a line or long call? I live in PHX and would be cool with LCR as the commute is quite easy.

2) Do LAS trips consist of any international flying? - Is the international stuff usually straight from LAS or do you get funneled into somewhere like FLL? - do those trips go senior?

3) piggy backing on the last question, what is the trip build usually like out of LAS? Is there lots of 4 leg SOCAL shuttle trips? I heard lots of redeye's to the east coast, but after the redeye whats the rest of the trips like

4) could I pick up any X/Y listings being a commuter from PHX?


If you have any other information about the base that you think would useful please let me know


Thanks!

1 - I’d bet a line takes about 6 months on reserve to get especially going into the slower season. I’d say long call would be about 4 months since Vegas is the base with the most long calls. Also yes it’s possible to have 4-5 months on property without sitting reserve. If you finish IOE after the 4th of the month then you will get an extra month of relief lines.

2 - int’l flying is routed thru IAH or MCO or FLL and normally not fun with redeye jungle turns. Definitely not senior. People drop them since the 8% override is not worth it.

3 - trips are all over the place. There’s long turns to like MSY that go senior, 4 leg locals that go junior, 1 redeye day stay and fly back that night, lots of legs on 2/3 days, and 4 days that are longer legs.

4 - You can grab X lists out of Vegas yes but some callouts are not too long to get it commutable. Can also Y list in PHX but I wouldn’t bet on any certain income since not too many flights there and if someone calls out need to get a very quick call that a reserve can’t fill. Also you need to match days off to that pilot calling out.

Off topic 5. Vegas is a very commutable base with a lot of flights and great commuter policy and easily doable from PHX. Also for short call reserve prob want to preference the redeye reserve period since those are more commutable but the downside is those don’t pay as much and you’ll never break guarantee.

Currently, how long would it take for a new hire FO to hold FLL as a domicile? Can you estimate how long I'd be on reserve before I could hold a line?

If the JB merger is approved, could I be displaced by JB pilots or would I still hold FLL, but loose my seniority within the base?

Thanks ...

Your seniority within the base will most definitely be loosened, meaning you will become more junior if that is what you were attempting to dictate in your post.

is spirit aqp for initial now?

Nope

filler

sucks, oh well

filler.....

You’re taught the ride (kinda) from the beginning. No biggy.

In a couple weeks I'd expect the first class of AQP NH to start.

Interesting. Any idea what will be different then?

Will the "gates" spirit does basically be implemented as part of validation events... Then a MV and then LOE?