Southwest will be sharing their Boeing $$$
09-11-2019 | 11:25 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 923
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I don't understand why you feel it is necessary to be constantly coming up with ways that the job you have is inferior to other people's jobs. There is such a thing as contentment and it's worth more than those dollar signs you're chasing. I for one don't feel inclined to follow in your footsteps of spending my time finding ways to "bring to light" things other people are getting that I'm not.
09-11-2019 | 11:26 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 813
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Every single airline, Delta and United included, have Bs in their contract, somewhere, that people don’t like. Go read the United “Contract 202x” thread for a bit. Every new TA has something given up. You may not see it or know about it, but it does happen. I have multiple friends at both United and Delta. What is the old saying with negotiations, it’s successful when both parties walk away feeling a bit ****ed off?
It should absolutely no surprise why this contract (and F9 and Allegiant’s) passed. It took 6 years here to make even $100 an hour right seat. SIX YEARS.
So a vast majority of the work force here was making hardly any respectable money. Now, outside of first year pay, everyone is basically over $100k base salary as an FO. CAs are $170k base and most are well above $200k. Most make well above these numbers with soft pay and being above guarantee.
They got this raise without giving up Trip dropping, swapping etc. That is one of the biggest reasons people come here. I’m not going to argue about Reserve drops and other smaller issues.
Again the main reason people are here, such as myself, is for QOL and schedule manipulation. That hasn’t changed. (Cue the “the grids always Red now” folks).
The union said we could have gotten Legacy rates, but would have to have given up drops. According to the union, the vast majority of pilots here said “hell no”. I guess you could chose not to believe them.
So next time around what do you think is going to happen?
People actually make enough money to wait it out. This is EXACTLY why The legacies vote down TAs. No ones broke, everyone makes a damn good living and there is usually retro pay as well. They don’t really, for the most part, care how long it takes.
I fully expect us, next contract, to vote down anything that isn’t up to par. We can AFFORD to do that. No one is broke working here anymore. If you can’t live on $100k + salary then you are an idiot and I would highly recommend looking up a fellow by the name of Dave Ramsey.
It’s pretty difficult to ask over half the pilot list to hold out last time when they were so grossly underpaid.
Finally, it may surprise you, but when Allegiant signed their first contact, 3 years ago, guess who made more than Delta flying the MD80 and Bus on their current contract? Allegiant did. King of the world Delta (much to the horror of their precious egos) made less than a LLC at one point in time.
It should absolutely no surprise why this contract (and F9 and Allegiant’s) passed. It took 6 years here to make even $100 an hour right seat. SIX YEARS.
So a vast majority of the work force here was making hardly any respectable money. Now, outside of first year pay, everyone is basically over $100k base salary as an FO. CAs are $170k base and most are well above $200k. Most make well above these numbers with soft pay and being above guarantee.
They got this raise without giving up Trip dropping, swapping etc. That is one of the biggest reasons people come here. I’m not going to argue about Reserve drops and other smaller issues.
Again the main reason people are here, such as myself, is for QOL and schedule manipulation. That hasn’t changed. (Cue the “the grids always Red now” folks).
The union said we could have gotten Legacy rates, but would have to have given up drops. According to the union, the vast majority of pilots here said “hell no”. I guess you could chose not to believe them.
So next time around what do you think is going to happen?
People actually make enough money to wait it out. This is EXACTLY why The legacies vote down TAs. No ones broke, everyone makes a damn good living and there is usually retro pay as well. They don’t really, for the most part, care how long it takes.
I fully expect us, next contract, to vote down anything that isn’t up to par. We can AFFORD to do that. No one is broke working here anymore. If you can’t live on $100k + salary then you are an idiot and I would highly recommend looking up a fellow by the name of Dave Ramsey.
It’s pretty difficult to ask over half the pilot list to hold out last time when they were so grossly underpaid.
Finally, it may surprise you, but when Allegiant signed their first contact, 3 years ago, guess who made more than Delta flying the MD80 and Bus on their current contract? Allegiant did. King of the world Delta (much to the horror of their precious egos) made less than a LLC at one point in time.
If anyone really expected to go from the basement to the penthouse in 1 contract, delusion. Huge gains made, will improve more next go around.
Loud mouths will continue to bark, but typically that’s all they do, bark and no bite.
09-11-2019 | 11:29 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
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That’s the key; lot easier to wait the company out with higher rates, LTD, 15% DC, etc....vs inferior Ltd, 9% match, $180 top rate with every FO sub $100 and most CAs 125/hr
If anyone really expected to go from the basement to the penthouse in 1 contract, delusion. Huge gains made, will improve more next go around.
Loud mouths will continue to bark, but typically that’s all they do, bark and no bite.
If anyone really expected to go from the basement to the penthouse in 1 contract, delusion. Huge gains made, will improve more next go around.
Loud mouths will continue to bark, but typically that’s all they do, bark and no bite.
09-11-2019 | 11:33 AM
#14
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
Minimum number of hours you can drop down to?
In regards to trip drops here is a thread about it in comparison to what everyone else had. Information seems unbiased and we aren’t the only ones with it. Delta can drop to zero as well much like us. Swa can drop to zero but only via “trade board”. Of course those workaholics will pick up anything you put out there I imagine. United can drop to 60 in opentime and zero vi “tradeboard/advertisement”.
And how many of us are actually dropping to zero anyway? Just about everyone has drop/swap ability and if you cannot go to zero there is some min level. Frontier and Jetblue appears the worst with 70hr min level having to be maintained no matter what.
We’re we win is the grid having to be 75% green at the start of IOT. Not sure others have that.
In regards to trip drops here is a thread about it in comparison to what everyone else had. Information seems unbiased and we aren’t the only ones with it. Delta can drop to zero as well much like us. Swa can drop to zero but only via “trade board”. Of course those workaholics will pick up anything you put out there I imagine. United can drop to 60 in opentime and zero vi “tradeboard/advertisement”.
And how many of us are actually dropping to zero anyway? Just about everyone has drop/swap ability and if you cannot go to zero there is some min level. Frontier and Jetblue appears the worst with 70hr min level having to be maintained no matter what.
We’re we win is the grid having to be 75% green at the start of IOT. Not sure others have that.
09-11-2019 | 12:08 PM
#15
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
The ol’ “if you don’t like it leave” reaction. Maybe being acutely aware of what our peers have will help us next time around. Having awareness of what we are worth and can leverage doesn’t mean someone is miserable to fly with, it doesn’t mean they hate working here, and it doesn’t mean they hope this place will morph into _____ (insert reputable airline name here).
I thoroughly enjoy working here and am grateful to work for a solvent company with a potentially bright future with fellow pilots who are skilled and have great attitudes. I also follow what my peers at other companies have and negotiate. I yearn for improvements in pay, calendar day/trip duty rigs, scope, hotel language, reserve rules, and profit sharing. How to get these things, I don’t know, but knowledge is power. Do you think management closely tracks our behavior (voting, premium flying, extra flying, and a multitude of other metrics) in order to extract the most from our workgroup month to month and during negotiations? I think yes, we’re one of our employer’s biggest expenses, they’d be foolish not to.
I hope the pilot culture here doesn’t truly spurn planning for future improvements and aspirations starting well in advance of the next contract.
I thoroughly enjoy working here and am grateful to work for a solvent company with a potentially bright future with fellow pilots who are skilled and have great attitudes. I also follow what my peers at other companies have and negotiate. I yearn for improvements in pay, calendar day/trip duty rigs, scope, hotel language, reserve rules, and profit sharing. How to get these things, I don’t know, but knowledge is power. Do you think management closely tracks our behavior (voting, premium flying, extra flying, and a multitude of other metrics) in order to extract the most from our workgroup month to month and during negotiations? I think yes, we’re one of our employer’s biggest expenses, they’d be foolish not to.
I hope the pilot culture here doesn’t truly spurn planning for future improvements and aspirations starting well in advance of the next contract.
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