Either way they just told 1000 guys they are fools and would’ve gotten the entire month off for line value plus a bonus if they want to work a little. Then told all the rsv that we just gave all the lineholders a bonus but to forget to be in position for your RAPs.

I agree with this, it’s almost as if they want to spend the most amount of money they can it’s insane. Also it’s clear at this point management has no idea what they are doing.


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Well, they’re not covering payroll for a few months, and nearly half the pilot group is on reduced lines.

I don’t really see what the hullabaloo is here. People need to bid for what that want, NOT something that strategically mathematically possibly grammatically may happen.

You want the whole month off? Bid VIL, you got it! (Assuming senior enough.)
You want to fly? Bid a line! (You get it if you’re senior enough.)
You want to be on reserve (knowing how crappy some aspects are), bid it!

I fail to see why people are so ****ed because some lucked out who chose to fly. And, fwiw, I am by no ways senior in my bid status....

So are you saying that it could save about 600 pilots because 1.25 +1.25 is still below 3M savings from VIL?

Explain to me how all 1000 pilots would have got line valve and a bonus if they work a little? you think all of those 1000 would be a line holder? For Example, there was only 38 lines in LAS and 74 who took the VIL. As a commuter, and on reserve, i would be using my commuter clause for just about everything time I had an LCR assignment, (due to the reduce flight schedules) or sit in the crash pad for 2/3 of the month. Many commuter didn't want to deal with that especially if they knew they would be on reserve.

My guess is the company didn't have a lot of choices but to dump the schedule and rebuild, to comply with the minimum service. So we can do routes like this:

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2...-columbus.html

Nah. I mean if every drop saved were poured back into the pilot portion of payroll and benefits then maybe 400+. 300 FO’s at minimum guarantee plus bennies isn’t probably more like $2M a month. That’s a total wag, but probably in the ball park. So somewhere above that number at $3.3M saves a month with 1000 VILs taken. Maybe 450. Take that for the guess that it is.

so now all the rsv commuters have to go sit in the pad all month when the lineholders get the month off to roam about. Rsv lines should be dumped and needed rsv put into open time for pick up above guarantee and all VILs made whole to 72hrs

I just saw the new open time trips under crew trac,
in DFW it’s less than April, some days doing only 1 flight a day.

I totally get that but why no TAJ? Maybe they didn’t want to deal with ALPA? I just don’t approve of giving half of the pilot group a free ride while the other half of the group has to stay in the trenches and earn their keep. I get things aren’t always fair but that’s just not right.

I agree, they should have the TAJ instead of the making their schedule blank. My response has to do with why they dump the schedule and rebuild it.

btw that’s not how the commuter clause works and even if it did wouldn’t get paid.

You're not understanding my point. My commute went from 13-14 flights a day to 3-4 (that didn't get cut or canceled). Earlier this month, I had a day trip that I was assigned to, while on LCR. I had to use my CC because not only 2 but 3 of the flights that could get me to my report time was canceled, and I was deducted 4 hrs of pay. I can either roll the dice and hope the next time if I get called out. The flight I need is not canceled, and I have a long enough call out time, or go and sit in a crash pad for almost 2/3 of the month. That way I don't have to worry about using a commuter clause. Explain to me how CC works then? This is why many commuters took the VIL.

you mentioned flight frequency not that there were legal flights for the commuter clause that got canceled. My bad

I bid long call this month and for may just so i can stay off the grid. Guess i got fooled again for the second month and missed out lol. I will say that if one groups schedule get wiped and pay protected everyone should get the same. Reserve guys should not get left out of the fun with schedule clearing. Guess ill have to fly one day trip next month for free :(

There should be some sort of group grievances to come about tho.

It will be interesting how many pilots take the VIL going forward. Line Holders get paid to sit at home and tons of LCR lines.............

If you could have held a line but purposely bid reserve for reasons you thought might benefit you; well that’s tough luck and on you. For others on reserve because that’s what your seniority holds; well that’s what your seniority holds. Good grief people, how else is this supposed to play out? Be happy you have monies being deposited in your checking account next month. We are experiencing unprecedented times, the company is trying to tread water while abiding the best they can with our CBA. No other industry I can think of is paying employees to not work. We are lucky; quit being petty and count your blessings.

Probably only commuters at this point. Now that we know the company is taking the govt bailout money there isn't any risk for furloughs/downgrades until Oct 1st, and therefore no reason to bid for a VIL unless you want to be 100% certain that you will not be working for a given month.

I guess it was bound to happen. After 25 posts, you eventually had to accidentally say something rational.

True story.

this man speaks the truth

This reasoning could be used to justify the company giving special treatment to any segment of our pilot group - Completely undermines our CBA.

More truth

Im happy sitting in my cave watching the craziness because i would of only made 3 to 6 more hrs but would like the piece of mind that my whole schedule is dropped. If the company canceled all flights then all reserve should of also. I guess its cheaper to give 35% of the pilots free money than working with union and pay the whole pilot group again. Im not going to be a opentime virus till June but the trips will be worked out by then and no extra time will be available.
In a lot of industries people are getting paid to do nothing or very little work thanks to the virus and government. My neighborhood and friends might be different than most tho. Saying we are lucky to get violated by our company is not smart ;)

The only problem is, if you read the email from the mec that came to your personal email, it appears they did actually work in collaboration with the union to come up with this. Thats what I got from it anyways.

The company has 100% support from the union on this. Again, it’s complete bul!sh1t, and yet another example of reserves being treated as second class citizens.

I’ll still take VIL in June, mainly because I’d be reserve

These are your elected reps working with the company.

Haha! Didnt get that far lol. Guess i need to look at it during lunch

There will be a heck of a lot less that qualify for VILs in June once those that have been on reserve in April onward start the dequal currency wave in mid June .

How so? why did rsv get fisted?

Agreed, they can’t have it both ways. The amount of people who won’t dequalify and want to take VIL will be quite small.

Boy, you sure do ***** A LOT!
So why are you so bitter, did you take the first available upgrade knowing that reserve sucks, or are you to junior to hold a line? I'm trying to understand your rational. Reserve sucks anywhere.

still required to be in position for RAPs all month while lineholders got their schedules wiped with pay and free to roam the country.

This excuse is nonsense. Reserve isn’t supposed to suck and now is a perfect example of how you could’ve been a lineholder for YEARS and now could be on reserve for YEARS. US AIR had FOs that were there for decades that were on reserve involuntarily. I’ve been making this argument forever and people kept saying that was an exceptional time in the industry and we are a growth airline so... now the chickens have come home to roost.

Reserve isn’t necessarily about being junior or new. It’s just another type of schedule consisting of being of availability periods instead of trips.

If anyone took the VIL out of some altruistic sentiment, bless your heart. After reading these posts I feel you are in the minority.

I would also challenge anyone to find an example in the entire history of this industry where pilots falling on their swords avoided what comes next.

edit: And yes, RSV gets screwed again but that's roughly 70% our fault.

I'm fairly senior in the company smartas$. This isn't about reserve sucking to begin with. We all know what reserve is, and no, it shouldn't have to suck.

Bottom line is lineholders should have been placed on TAJ and trips should placed over those days. My job as a reserve is not covering lineholders getting the free ride gravy train for the month making guarantee or better.

...and it's *rationale.

Boom!! I think the bigger concern is why would the company, in the midst of unprecedented financial stress, keep line holders off the hook for TAJ and then pay them extra to pick up flying in place of that? Would love to hear the APC rationale on how this is congruent with the CBA and shouldn't be of concern to people who work here...

Lineholders get pay protected AGAIN!
 

This too. It completely defeats the purpose of offering VIL.