People, People! We have the easiest job until we don’t; the hardest part of this job is to become a senior captain for the majority of your airline career. Pay, vacation, schedule, which equals quality of life, is only possible being high on a seniority list in this line of work. Never jump from a list unless it’s from a regional, or the airline is furloughing while all or most airlines are hiring. Don’t ever voluntarily leave a list unless you believe that is a list you wouldn’t mind spending your career on. The last 30 years, especially since 9/11 has proven how un wise it is to hop around from list to list. It blew my mind when pilots with projected senior captain longevity for many years ahead left to become junior FOs once again only to expose themselves to another predictable industry downturn. Seniority is all we have in the airline industry; complaining about what your life is because you lack seniority in seat or base is pathetic. If you chose wisely, the problems you’re experiencing with ‘your today’s downturn’ won’t be as impactful next time because you’ll have seniority on your side. Be happy you’re here, and hopefully your seniority keeps you receiving a pay check once Oct 1 rears it’s ugly head.

i don’t even understand this post. Are you saying you predicted this downturn?

No one can predict a downturn to a specific date, but only an idiot wouldn’t expect an eventual downturn or several downturns in a 40+ career. Only join a major airline list you want to forever remain on. Seniority is the only buffer you have against eventual, predictable, and historical dark years the airline industry reliably delivers. The happiest pilot, is a pilot that spends his airline career on one list for 30+ years. Jumping around will get you screwed. Complaining about how your seniority isn’t affording you x,y, and z during a downturn should solidify the ramifications of the airline seniority system. If you stay on the same list, next go around it won’t be you complaining; but if you jump around it will be you every time with every downturn. Chill on the complaining and learn from the life lesson.

Trade your days away. Probably plenty of local people willing to pick them up.

This is all spot on, until your airline goes under then it doesn't matter how much seniority you have. There is something to be said for working at an airline that is "too big to fail." Even if you get furloughed from UAL/DAL/AA/SWA you will most likely have an airline to come back to.

Is every single trip really a day trip? How about things like DTW-LAX? Only way to make that work would be with a deadhead one way.

that’s how ord works to lax - 8h 44 min day trip - fly out deadhead back or vice versa.

The LAX turns in April we’re working both flights. Now in May you will either fly first then DH back, or DH out and fly back.

Yeah thats what those guys say that work for Pan Am, TWA, Eastern.....oh wait....

He did say "most likely" so...

Looking at today’s MOU, I’d say the company F’d themselves by yanking the rug out from under VIL and reserve bidder in May.

IDK, I bid VIL for June *because* of what happened for May.

Full disclosure, I have a 2.5 hour drive to work and it's worth saving a month of day-trip drives and/or hotels.

I bid VIL for June because I’d rather spend the month drinking on the lake than worrying about work.

Not sure how they F'd them self. All day trips lines suck if you dont live close and SCR sucks if you dont live in base. I see it helping LCR since i can be anywhere in the USA or in the Caribbean this summer and get to showtime by 24hrs. I would only need one flight that gets in before show or commuter clause it since i have a lot of sick time. I live 1.5hrs from base and not sure if i want to drive 3hrs everyday for a line. VIL will be picked up by commuters, if LRC is not possible, or people that dont need to work since landings are not an issue anymore. July could be a huge X/Y list month if people fly on our cheap tickets tho

Did anyone understand the rationale of not assigning the new MAY trips to TAJ / drop into open time?
I fully agree with all the protest regarding BOTS.
Same single digit CA in every base, fly all the trips in May.
Some even out of domicile!
I expect the same is true for FO. (don't know how to access FO pairings on flica)
Do we need to form a reserve committee? :D
RES QOL was the worse loss in last CBA Sect 25. concessions!

I meant that I suspect they didn’t get enough takers for June, because of the nonsense in May

You think this is bad? Just wait for the union communication about concessions. Get ready to have the old contract pay rates shoved down our throats.

NO concessions!!!!!!!!

Im bidding VIL and expecting 10ish hours extra for currency. Pretty good deal.

with as hard as it is to get flights to the sim now I'm thinking it'll be 3 or even a 4day

Might want to read up on that contract. Commuter clause drops don’t use sick time. They’re DROPS...

I think he’s saying if he cant make it in on just one flight, then it’s a sick call ;)

not going to happen. Been furloughed and took paycuts. Paycuts didn’t stop furloughs and didn’t save the airline and I came back from furlough at a lower pay. We even had SnapBack provisions for pay and the company skirted then for years and never paid.

We are already the lowest or second lowest paid. Not taking concessions ever. It does nothing. Long term pain for a relatively short term problem. If the airline is in big trouble no amount of paycuts 1% to 99% will make any bit of difference.

I agree with you. I’m just saying that this union doesn’t have the pulse of this pilot group and don’t be surprised if they try to go down that road.

When they declare bankruptcy, then they can try and force concessions. Until then, screw em.

The pulse of this pilot group is that barely 50 pilots showed up to picket for this current contract. The guys that need 130 hours to pay for toys, picked up open time constantly, which showed the company, during negotiations, that the old pay rates were acceptable. Half the guys here complain about stuff in the current contract that is unchanged from last time, but claim it was better before. In other words they barely read the old contract, let alone the current one.

We were going to get put on ice behind Frontier and JetBlue. The pulse of this pilot group certainly didn't give the Union negotiators any leverage. You're crazy if you think otherwise.

I'm not defending our current contract, but it was the best they could do with the help of the apathetic group that couldn't even wear a strike lanyard.

Hopefully we miraculously survive without furloughs. But to those on the street if we do, don't be surprised to watch guys pick up overtime with or without the help of a bot. They need that 130 hours of cheese and can't be bothered with picketing or lanyards, or furloughed pilots. They can just blame "The Union", that they don't realize includes them.

Well, this isn’t my first rodeo. Been an ALPA member for over 22 years, been furloughed, been on strike, been through negotiations that lasted years.
The problem you have is the “need to have it now” generation. They lack knowing the history of the industry and the fight it has taken to get what the major airlines have.
I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. I just don’t think our union fights battles. I think they cave to ALPA legal or our grievance committee decides to fight for what they deem is important.

Good last posts^

I do agree that our pilot group is weak, which included the NC and MEC.
Wearing red strike laniards and buying billboards, will not get you a solid contract, when in fact we were prevented from such strike!
It was an empty threat, which again Bendo laughed at...
That same guy who destroyed the mechanics union at NWA, was hired for that purpose, to get CBA concessions.
He won, because WE let him.
Some net "amateurs" thought it would be fun to name names on the www!

If any of you were here for the last strike, you would recognize that was a resolute pilot group, as opposed to 2018.
Subsequently there was a coup, who voted in a junior pilot as MEC Chair, who was supposed to have extensive union experience at two other airlines.
One of his first actions was to provide relief for Bendo during a meltdown, without communicating it to the group. He was then removed. This action showed Bendo and the company that they are dealing with a week and unified pilot group. We gave the company a distance learning letter of agreement, by 70% vote! Voluntarily losing the training conflict, for 10 hours of pay, to sit at home and do 50 hours of computer study... What's so bad about going to GS, while getting 8 days dropped, with pay?
Oh yeah, they were going to buy 100 laptops and make us go to the domiciles to do our learning...Sure!
They fooled us again, we bit into the lie that the iPads were connected to that letter of agreement. Those iPads were already purchased by Spirit and were in the warehouse. Those words came directly from Yuri. Plus the iPads were in Spirit's interest. We should have gotten something for that LOA, not give up training conflict! One more indication that our pilot group was weak, uninformed and apathetic. Relief during the summer meltdown and 30 months of negotiations, during which the MEC and the entire pilot group were sued in court. So this negotiating committee is now under a public lawsuit, in which their names are named and they know that ALPA legal will not cover all their legal fees, if **** hit the fan and Spirit decided to get really nasty. How can these guys negotiate under such threat and our MEC still keep them in there? If not our MEC, ALPA national should have removed them immediately. Our MEC and membership, had given one more indication to Bendo that we are easily manipulated and threatened. Finally November 2017. I’m talking to one of the MEC officers which was furious with the treatment they had received in Virginia, during negotiations. It's late night after a grueling day, they were ready to sign the new CBA concessions for 40% extra pay. Bendo walks in with a bunch of papers, throws them on the table and says "this is PBS". The NC walked off the table. This same contract was proposed to the membership for vote in March 2018, with PBS.

So one of my questions during the roadshows was why are we voting in the middle of low season, why don’t we wait until June, July, August, September when they’re burning for pilots? Why are we giving them relief again? The answer was because most pilots cannot wait three more months, and this is the best we will get, period. We had waited 30 months, we cannot wait 33? We’re voting on a concessionary contract, only to still be one of the lowest paid, without the QOL benefits which allowed us to increase credit, such as transition/vacation/training/reserve drops. So what do you think Bendo thinks of our MEC, NC, and our pilot group? What do you think they’re going to do next time there is a unity requirement from our group? What kind of indication have we shown them historically?
Sandi does a fantastic job at hiring Pilots. I have not yet flown with a person that I have not liked at this company. However, they aim to hire what they call "nice guys/gals". Because we are a group of nice, easygoing , agreeable, guys/gals, they also consider us to be pushovers...
I hope we learn from our mistakes. I am afraid that the gobbling up of open time on top of TAJs, and using bots, are not optimistic indications.

Let's all stay strong and healthy, focused and UNIFIED!
Time to show we are not a weak group anymore.
Best to all during this crisis!

have you spoken to your representatives and let them know.

What we need are leaders who know how to rally. Neither this council, or the last, could be bothered to send out regular communications, make calls on an individual level, or go out of their way to get to know their constituents. You want people to show up and get excited then put in more effort than an email the day prior to whatever event your holding. Our leaders need to take ownership of their shortcomings and then work to be better, blaming the pilot group is the opposite of how this gets fixed.

I think the communication has been great. We get lots of emails. You do know that these are volunteer positions where some are not only doing their job as a pilot but having to field calls and emails when they are not. Do you spend your time in the hotel/ at home volunteering? Maybe instead of griping step up to the plate.

Back in my day I walked three hours in the pouring snow with no coat or boots to get to my airplane. Darn kids these days...

Yes thank you, I am active in my volunteer position with alpa. I never said they weren’t doing a thankless job, but we’re not talking about guys who are unpaid volunteers here. The guys at the top are compensated handsomely to do what we need them to do, and blaming the grunts for not showing up to events isn’t going to solve the problem. If we want tighter unity and greater turnout the formula has to improve. No one is looking for anyone to be replaced, that certainly wouldn’t solve anything. But having leaders who actually went out regularly to sit in the jumpseat, make cold calls to guys from every base and seniority level, and finding ways to be better in touch with the heartbeat of the group would be a major change for good.

edit: I will concede that there aren’t many jumpseats to sit in right now, but plenty of couches are occupied by pilots who would probably love to hear from their leaders for the first time.

Ok good points I understand what you are saying. Thanks for volunteering.

Don’t forget asking questions or passing along an idea gets you put on their S$@t List. It’s a really unifying feeling thinking one has no voice or input. Surveys? Not sure they are even looked at.

Glad the MEC stepped up and took action on the use of the BOTS. Step in the right direction and glad they listened to the concerns of the membership and worked with management on it.

Think it’s hard to overlook right now when 3 or 4 pilots got 75% of the flying.

Dumb bastards hung themselves.

Yep, like anything else they got too greedy

I’m sure they will escape with no consequences.