Lineholders get pay protected AGAIN!
 

April was one thing but again in May they pay protect all line holders and then build new day trips for pick up on top of guarantee!!!! WTF!!!

There is even less competition for these day trips for May compared to April. So pilots that could hold lines get to make out like bandits for May.

For the many guys with their heads still buried in the sand.... We are not going to be back to normal soon. Smarten up- we are in the same boat as all the other airlines, our management is just putting on a slow show

Kind of a raw deal for the pilots that took VIL

and rsv still on the hook for their RAPs

This is complete fuggin bull$h!t.

Thank your politicians and the drive by media for their insistence on smoking the industry and national economy . I guess elections do have consequences . If half the Covid cases were in WY, MT, IA and NE instead of NYC, this would barely make it to the airwaves and there would have been no shutdown anywhere .

Commentarry aside, I suggest anyone in the bottom half of the seniority list start looking into a different career.

Kind of a raw deal? It’s an anal fisting without lube.

This whole thing is a cluster.....think they should assign all those trips to reserve. Allowing line holders (which is a small number) to pick up all the flying is ridiculous.

They should pay everyone at least guarantee now. The pilots that took the reduced pay for May have no say in what happens? “Thanks for the help, up yours VIL pilots”. How are they going to accept the CARES act if they can’t even do 56 flights per day? This place is a train wreck that’s just left the tracks

Noooo..they should assign those trips as TAJ assignments to lineholders. Whatever is left over goes to reserves.

Ladies and Gentlemen... start your bots!

Those of us that took VIL to help and save money just got the D

Can we talk about profit sharing in the next contract ?! 🤣

poor pity me!!! :rolleyes:

you realize if we haveto furlough half our list, it means the airline won’t survive, period, right?

I don’t think anyone probably took it to really help the company. People took it to have a whole month off work, while still having some income.

I would say it was more like, I’ll help you, if you help me

Now NOBODY is going to take a VIL for June. Company screwed themselves on this one.........

I would say it was a combination of pilots not wanting to work, and individuals wanting to mitigate their exposure to the Corona virus.

Beyond that the company has been too tight lipped for anyone to make an intelligent decision with regard to helping them with incentive lines.

I think a lot of people took them because 50 hours is not too shabby for knowing you have the whole month off. You don't have to bid, watch your schedule, just sit at home or do whatever you want.
Some did take it to help the company. The company is losing millions of dollars right now, some of us want the company to survive long term, and taking a small paycut times 1000 pilots adds up. If everyone wasn't so greedy and chipped in temporarily it might help. Covid is not the company's fault. They are scrambling like the rest of the world. Covid is the media's fault. The sheeple are being driven by fear and propaganda. This will not end till the election is over and watch the virus problems magically disappear.

I did the math. 1000 VIL’s evenly split between both seats saves about 1 day of pay. A shade over maybe. It’s just not enough to make any relevant difference if the company is in dire straits.

“Wow, this whole covid thing is serious... I mean it could really put a damper on crediting over 150 hours this month.”

”I know, I have two alimony payments, child support, a novia in Bogota and I was going to buy another boat this summer. How are we going to make sure the inner circle makes their nut next month?”

”Well first we get about thousand pilots to give up a third of their guarantee...just scare them into thinking the place will shut down if they don’t”

”You think they’ll fall for that?”

”Pfff of course they will, besides you ever see that Wolf of Wallstreet movie? We know how to spend it better, those poor schmucks will just waste it on food and rent”

”Yeah but like any good pyramid scheme, we will need even more idiots to forego their contractual salary in the months to come, we better put out a bunch of emails to make it look official and above board”

And scene.

I hope not a single person bids VIL for June...

This is a rudderless ship at this point

It’s actually about 300 furloughs

and if the company wanted to save money and more importantly goodwill moving forward they wouldn’t have done this twice in a row expecting folks to sign up for a VIL ever again. Further expecting the rsv pilots to be held accountable for all their RAPs when you just gave every lineholder the month off with pay and the opportunity to pick up the entire schedule on top of guarantee GMAFB.

How many months can we stay in business flying routes mandated by the Government with zero revenue? And the zero revenue is due to the Government telling everyone to social distance, shelter in place, safer at home until 20xx?

I have my own business as well and I realize very acutely what the actions taken by the Government will lead to in 6-12 months time. The amount of damage that has been inflicted onto this nation is sickening.

That said, I'm in the bullish camp. I believe the good citizens see this whole disaster for what it truly is and believe air travel could be back quicker than the other experts on this board.

I’m not at Spirit, but I think most take the VIL lines where I work because their normal easy one leg commute has now turned into a 2 or 3 leg commute and needing a hotel on each side of the trip. So losing 20-25 hours of credit is worth it to them, even if most of their flying would be canceled anyway.

And remember, its the crew members responsibility to maintain currency or you may go unpaid. That's nice.

Amateur hour...

Those losing 90 day currency are going to be multiplying faster than a Covid19 outbreak in Brooklyn.

Run me through that math. 1000 VIL lines is roughly $3M and change in savings. I come up with 300 first year FO’s needing about $1.25M plus the cost of benefits.

maybe, but I think it has more to do with the CARES flying and the mass hysteria continuing way longer than it should.....

people are ****ed because line holders made out better. Nothing changed from the VILs perspective. They bid for and got exactly what they wanted. Life sucks, it isn’t fair.

I’m on RSV, so in reality I should be more ****ed off than anybody. RSV gets fisted once again.....

1000 vil lines equals 22,000 hrs of pay reduced for that month. Take that and divide it by 72hrs guarantee. Equals like 305.5. Then account for they don’t furlough 1/2 captains 1/2 fo’s. If the trend continues for 1000 vil a month, if you’re the bottom 300 on the list I’d say you’re in danger come October.

22,000 hrs of pay saved

22,000 / 72hr guarantee = 305 pilots

more or less when you factor in longevities or those furloughed or downgraded vs those taking the VIL and also variable is paying benefits on VIL vs furlough and not.

its rough math but about a savings of 305 pilots a month on guarantee with 1000 VIL.

Now they take that money and toss it at the lineholders to pick up and those that don’t get the month off with pay. That very well may still be a net savings for the company than flying an unprofitable schedule but erased goodwill for folks to want to take VILs in the future. And what RSV is still responsible for being in position for their RAPs? How about wipe all the RAPs with pay and put the ones you need in open time for pick up over guarantee.

1000 VIL’s by my back of the napkin math pays the entire company payroll for roughly a day. And I’m not sure they’re going to put the savings into individual buckets by employee group.

300 first year FO’s x 58 dollars an hour (generous with the 321 override) x 72 hours per month = $1.253M. Maybe $2M with all benefits included.

I dont have a problem with looking at it in terms of furloughs prevented per month. But it needs to presented to us that way with some numbers beside them we can grab ahold of mentally.

My greater point was that saving 1 day of entire company payroll is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

And the band played on.

Plane Coffee

Exactly. Correct me if I’m wrong, but there have been zero promises, documents, or even whispers from the company OR union that the VILs will “save jobs” “prevent furlough” etc. They were sold as a way to get a little pay for a whole month off. Nothing more.

Actually they did say it would help mitigate involuntary furloughs. I even have a union email that says it, plain as day

Try to look at a furlough as block hours of flying reduction not just $$$’s. The 300 number is a guess that they may be looking at 20,000 hour reduction of the flying schedule. The company will be right sized per the cba of 72hrs pay per pilot. Right now we went from 700+ departures a day to 56 I think. Certainly don’t need a lot of guys to cover that. The number they came up with might be a projection of where they think they’re gonna be down the road here. The whole thing sucks. When it comes down to the wire it will be how many hours are we flying and how fat do they want to keep the group to cover that flying. So basically block hours/72 + the fat for reserves/medical/ voluntary leave etc... wish they would give us a number but all we have right now is they wanted to shed 22,000 hrs of block/pay off the top. Hence 300 pilots.

You’re right, it said something like “...The most common method of furlough mitigation in the industry is voluntary leave”. Then it didn’t mention if the company agreed that they’d prevent furloughs because of it. Second to last paragraph mentions they’re “hopeful” it will avoid involuntary furlough, but that word isn’t making me feel to warm and fuzzy.

IMO, the fact that they relieved all line holders with pay and are adding all flying into open time is mind blowing. It not only allows people to have high credit for the month when we are hemorrhaging money but it also puts all of the responsibility of moving airplanes on RSV pilots if it’s not picked up. WTF are these people doing?