Earnings devolved into politics.... If we’re going to continue the thread derail may I add that Miatas are NOT sports cars. LFA aside, only Germans, Italians, and select American models qualify.
(One could include English cars, but....why?)

That's all the left can do is attack the President. Started with Russia, false, then a failed impeachment which was almost 100% partisan. That didn't work either. Yeah the man is not perfect but no one is. But he is not political and must have really ticked off some in power leftists so they will do everything to get rid of him. He had a strong economy going, tightening up our borders, lowest jobless claims (even among minorities). He says what he is going to do and does it. I'll take the guy who disrupts the politicians and drains the swamp. I won't take a guy who has been a politician his whole life and hasn't done anything. Instead of attacking Trump tell us why Biden is a good candidate? Actual accomplishments? I think real liberals wanted Bernie but the party did not and they pushed Biden who is a moderate. But it's backfiring because he is losing his mind. Just watch the debates, or no debates because he probably can't even make it through a debate.

Boom!

Miatas are airport cars, not sports cars

And WARN letters are coming.. 700 plus

I don’t think I’d fit in one, but thank you for acknowledging the obvious. 👍

It’s more than 700.............

2597......

Hence the plus... like plus 300

Mom you have every right to your opinion. It’s America. My best friend thinks a lot like you and it doesn’t keep us from having beers together and laughing. You like my friend however are in the ~38% of the citizenry that approves of Trump’s performance. Will he get re-elected? Maybe.
It isn’t looking very good for him today but maybe he can turn it around.
I wasn’t always hard anti-Trump. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt early on.
Not anymore though. When he was faced with a crisis he failed.

On another more important note.

Miata’s are definitely not sports cars.

Just a head’s up for those of you who have USPS Informed Delivery; apparently numerous members of the pilot group are getting large, official looking brown envelopes from FLL... filled with junk mail from some BS loan company. Must’ve gotten ahold of the company mailing list. Great timing, considering the Union news.

/sarcasm

to keep the theme....

soccer is boring.

People that ride bikes on the road enjoy creating confrontation and actually WANT to be honked at.

I’ve never actually watched an episode of Seinfeld

Wearing a mask alone in your car is pointless

You guys are idiots. Let's keep things relevant. Are WARN letters out or not?

According to the union email they are coming

Thank you for a dose of common sense factual data, I as well as many other career-minded grown adults appreciate it.

delete account and app. You will be much more at peace. I’ve been FB free for about five years and haven’t looked back.

The title of the union email says “possible” while the first paragraph says yes.

What training does a furloughed FO have to go through to get back online? The same as a new hire? The reason I’m asking is they may not want to furlough a lot October 1st (assuming we do furlough) if Thanksgiving and Christmas is right around the corner. Because it could take sometime to get those recalled pilots back up online.

Also, in the WARNS letter do they have to declare downgrades?

Back when the FOTM wasn't 6 volumes, I'd be able to tell you in a minute or 2. I'm going to start digging, because this is something people actually care about. In 2009, under a year was a PC and that's it.

FOTM Vol. 1 basically breaks requal into 4 categories: recency of experience (landing currency), curriculum A for those qualified to operate the type within previous 12 months, curriculum B for those dequaled >12 mos but <24 mos, curriculum C for those dequaled > 24 mos.

Recency of Experience: 3 T.O.s and landings, 1to full stop. T.O. with engine failure to lowest T.O. mins, hand-flown S.E. ILS to lowest mins, additional maneuvers to determine proficiency.

Curriculum A: complete required items not accomplished when due, i.e. ground school subjects, line check for CAs. Plus any additional curriculum prescribed by Dir. of Flight Training.

Curriculum B: Upgrade course + P.C. + O.E. , plus any additional curriculum prescribed by Dir. of Flight Training.

Curriculum C: Initial + P.C. + O.E.

B & C kinda sucks. How are warn letters sent via email or snail mail? Warn would include possible furloughs not downgrades. Those would come as each involuntary vacancy is awarded.

Pretty sure it’s snail mail.


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I got the same junk mail twice lol. Its going to be like the boy who cried wolf. Guess i have to check back here in a week to know how deep it goes. My union emails always get buried in a sea of junk

Our MEC has been projecting negativity and emitting the "doom and gloom" scenario since the inception of this whole debacle. Some say, "they just want to prepare us for the worst and hope for the best", or "they just want to make sure people's finances are in order". We are adults. If people's personal finances are not in order, especially during a time such as this, that is a problem inherent to the individual, not of concern to the rest of the pilot group, nor the MEC.

Our union should to be concerned with our CBA and making sure both us and the company abide by it; nothing more, nothing less. That is the capacity of their existence. They are not financial advisers or CPAs. I personally would appreciate it if they would stay in their lane and concern themselves with protecting our CBA. We are all inundated, around the clock, with the 'doom and gloom' of the SCAMdemic and do not need more negativity, presumptuous at that, coming to us from them.

Exactly. This is why, in my opinion, nothing will happen until after Jan 1. Keeping extra pilots for 2 more months is not even close to what’s going to decide whether this place survives or not (assuming absolute worst case scenario). It just isn’t.

Anyhow, think about this. When this mess first started it was BAD. The first two Townhalls and emails were BAD. “No idea when demand is going to return” etc.

Then the third (maybe fourth) email or TH there was the “a glimmer of hope of demand returning” and then BOOM (seemingly out of nowhere) they announce June 200-300 a day and July were flying 550 a day.

I think if you were to ask, and get an honest answer, TC and Co. would have told you your crazy if you told them we would fly the schedule we did in June/July. I think it came back faster than they truly expected.

Now depending on who you talk to and what numbers they used, we essentially broke even in June flying 300 a day or so. That is very good for us going forward.

Given how fast things came back in June/July, I don’t see them changing staffing until after the
holidays. I think they want to really really really be ready to take advantage of those 6 weeks. By then most (I have to think) International destinations (def money makers) will be back open as well.

If the holidays suck, there is a “second wave” or the “first wave” right now is still going on, then yeah I think we will see some happening. Who knows. Time will tell. It sucks waiting, but that’s all we can do.

So what happens this winter when a vaccine comes out and suddenly the media is streaming “no more COVID, life returning to normal,” 24/7

I am thinking they intended to furlough before then since they are sending out the warn letters now. Also the email states they are sending them out based on the "worst case scenario," so we will see in the next week or so what that means.

If the company doesn’t agree to some form of long term VIL program for furlough mitigation before the warn letters then I’m putting on my tin foil hat and saying they are using a shotgun warn letter approach for concessionary negotiations.

I agree with that, they are definitely coming for concessions. But I also don't see them having much need to offer long term VIL lines. Being a one type fleet is good and bad, here is the bad because it's easier and cheaper to furlough as there are not big displacement bids to shuffle pilots to other types. SWA only did extended paid time off to try and keep their reputation of never furloughing, we have no such warm feelings and reputation to uphold so I suspect there won't be long term VIL lines offered, but that's just my guess.

From an MEC guy here...

“The company asked us to strip some of our workrules and take pay cuts. The MEC said concessions like that were off the table. Company thenasked about Voluntary things like VILs, we said yes. On the list of standard industry voluntary items, company had no interest in early out retirements. So basically that lift VILs. NC slid a proposal to the company on Wednesday regarding long term VILs, now we are waiting to hear back from Spirit. They like Vils because it gives them flexibility in recovery. But obviously not paying a pilot saves more money than paying him 50 hours. So Spirit is still trying to figure out what the right final number is based on current market conditions. The ball park they gave us for Warn letters going out was ugly.”

except when things eventually turn around they can use it as a recruitment tool.

When we hear that, it will be the least sexy eargasm mankind has ever known.

LOL. Is there a new warm and fuzzy Spirit that the rest of us haven't heard about?

pretty sure recruiting won’t be an issue after this. I would assume more than likely that we maybe the first to hire sometime in the future. Legacies won’t be hiring for an extended period. All the regional guys who were holding off for a call from the big boys will be rushing to apply here (and the likes
of JetBlue/frontier) I’d imagine applications (when we hire) will be thru the roof

Not to mention all the people the company already has in its hiring pool from the beginning of the year, just prior to the outbreak.

I think they could get a lot of interest in VILs with schools starting out virtually. Someone has to be at home with the kiddos. So, I can’t imagine they won’t at least do some long term VIL.

paying a senior captain 50hrs vs 72+ can save more than furloughing a bottom guy even when you factor in retirement and benefits. It just all depends on who takes the VIL

Thanks for letting us know.

I don’t think many of the post 2018 hires really understand who we work for. Spirit will not let this go to waste. Whether they want or need the furloughs I bet they send out a crazy number of the warn letters to scare us to death. My guess is they send 1,000+ letters. This is all a ploy. JB knows what he’s doing here. We are already the lowest paid airbus pilots in this country and he’s going to come for more. We have to say no chance in hell.

As someone furloughed before, like many others here, I can tell you it sucks. It’s no picnic especially in a down economy when other employment is hard to come by. I was also part of a company that took paycuts to supposedly mitigate furloughs. They didn’t. The furloughs happened anyway and I never saw that money again. We even had SnapBack provisions that were violated for years. Years after recall still made less money.

Voluntary measures like VILs are the only thing that will mitigate furloughs. Pay and work rule concessions will never help but ensure you work more days for less money for years, and then fight in the next CBA just to break even. It’s a fools errand.

My guess is they send over a thousand warns and perhaps they need a few hundred. Covid is a moving target and they don’t even know what a month from now looks like. My guess is they take a few hundred off the bottom on October 1st and that will last at least a year. Probably recall Jan 2022 to be ready for spring break and summer. Once they have a better idea of how Covid looks good his fall maybe more furloughs in January 2021 with same recalls starting Jan 2022.


One mans opinion.

Im just glad the union said no to concessions. I’m junior and would much rather be furloughed for a year or two than take 10 years to get the hourly rate back.

Agreed. I think just about everyone is on the same page.