|
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
(Post 3099051)
I don’t think many of the post 2018 hires really understand who we work for. Spirit will not let this go to waste. Whether they want or need the furloughs I bet they send out a crazy number of the warn letters to scare us to death. My guess is they send 1,000+ letters. This is all a ploy. JB knows what he’s doing here. We are already the lowest paid airbus pilots in this country and he’s going to come for more. We have to say no chance in hell.
As someone furloughed before, like many others here, I can tell you it sucks. It’s no picnic especially in a down economy when other employment is hard to come by. I was also part of a company that took paycuts to supposedly mitigate furloughs. They didn’t. The furloughs happened anyway and I never saw that money again. We even had SnapBack provisions that were violated for years. Years after recall still made less money. Voluntary measures like VILs are the only thing that will mitigate furloughs. Pay and work rule concessions will never help but ensure you work more days for less money for years, and then fight in the next CBA just to break even. It’s a fools errand. My guess is they send over a thousand warns and perhaps they need a few hundred. Covid is a moving target and they don’t even know what a month from now looks like. My guess is they take a few hundred off the bottom on October 1st and that will last at least a year. Probably recall Jan 2022 to be ready for spring break and summer. Once they have a better idea of how Covid looks good his fall maybe more furloughs in January 2021 with same recalls starting Jan 2022. One mans opinion. NO CONTRACT CONCESSIONS NOW OR EVER. I think our current MEC saw the hate they spewed after we waived the contract in 2015. Never again. Let's see what we can do amongst ourselves to save a protect our own. |
Damn straight Qotsa! Zero concessions, we've been under-compensated vs our peers for years, I will never vote to give any of it back. I also think the company will send out vastly more WARN letters than they intend to act on. Don't fall for the threats and fear mongering that we'll no doubt see in the coming days.
|
I agree with the others. Their number one priority in EVERYTHING is making costs as low as possible. Dont be fooled.
That being said, our relative cost advantage will go up with furloughs at the lagacy carriers, so I propose we seek pay raises. |
An ultra low cost carrier worrying about costs at every corner , I’m shocked ! Shocked i tell ya ..
|
Full pay till the last day! And that includes min guarantee....
|
Originally Posted by Cyio
(Post 3099035)
Not to mention all the people the company already has in its hiring pool from the beginning of the year, just prior to the outbreak.
spirit will never have a shortage of highly qualified applicants. They didn’t before covid, and they certainly won’t now. A lot of regional guys just got a scary wake up call that cleared their heads of their “oh I’ll just flow or get some PIC time and get out of here soon” idea |
Originally Posted by Macjet
(Post 3099111)
...... Let's see what we can do amongst ourselves to save a protect our own.
Also worth noting, remember that the junior guys are also ‘our own’, too. Voluntary and VIL options will be offered. Hopefully those of us that can participate will choose to! We can make a major dent in the number that will be involuntarily displaced/downgraded/furloughed. Taking a few months off paid 50 hours could prevent someone from losing their house or becoming a commuter |
I fully intend to take VIL if offered
|
Originally Posted by MainlineorSuici
(Post 3099198)
you’re speaking about saying no to concessions, and I agree wholeheartedly.
Also worth noting, remember that the junior guys are also ‘our own’, too. Voluntary and VIL options will be offered. Hopefully those of us that can participate will choose to! We can make a major dent in the number that will be involuntarily displaced/downgraded/furloughed. Taking a few months off paid 50 hours could prevent someone from losing their house or becoming a commuter |
Originally Posted by Macjet
(Post 3099239)
I apologize for the lack of clarity. All of us need to consider adjusting our budgets 15-20% in order to keep our junior pilots from having to adjust 100%. I am fully onboard with an LOA or an MOU that cuts my guarantee, and my obligated days, on a defined term in order to keep our junior pilots employed. These are our fellow aviators and we owe it to them to do whatever we can to protect them and their families. Hopefully our MEC proposes a solution that can keep all of us receiving a paycheck.
|
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
(Post 3099051)
I don’t think many of the post 2018 hires really understand who we work for. Spirit will not let this go to waste. Whether they want or need the furloughs I bet they send out a crazy number of the warn letters to scare us to death. My guess is they send 1,000+ letters. This is all a ploy. JB knows what he’s doing here. We are already the lowest paid airbus pilots in this country and he’s going to come for more. We have to say no chance in hell.
One mans opinion. If you take a close look at the 2-3 years of negotiation, you'll see that they played the game *MASTERFULLY.* Everything they did was spot on perfect to bully us, wear us down, and defeat us into voting in "the best we can get." I honestly believe that they are downright geniuses at this. And it's about to happen again. "Fly it like you own it," "don't run the APU," "pay for your own water when deadheading," "Don't eat the snackboxes," " All these things will help the company profit, but profit sharing is off the table. Don't let them shove concessions down your throat when they aren't willing to share the profits they beg of us. |
Originally Posted by Macjet
(Post 3099239)
I apologize for the lack of clarity. All of us need to consider adjusting our budgets 15-20% in order to keep our junior pilots from having to adjust 100%. I am fully onboard with an LOA or an MOU that cuts my guarantee, and my obligated days, on a defined term in order to keep our junior pilots employed. These are our fellow aviators and we owe it to them to do whatever we can to protect them and their families. Hopefully our MEC proposes a solution that can keep all of us receiving a paycheck.
make no mistake, however. I’ll also do my part and that means I’ll go home on furlough as a junior man and wait for a recall before I take concessions either. (Not that I have a voice yet) but still. |
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
(Post 3099051)
I don’t think many of the post 2018 hires really understand who we work for. Spirit will not let this go to waste. Whether they want or need the furloughs I bet they send out a crazy number of the warn letters to scare us to death. My guess is they send 1,000+ letters. This is all a ploy. JB knows what he’s doing here. We are already the lowest paid airbus pilots in this country and he’s going to come for more. We have to say no chance in hell.
As someone furloughed before, like many others here, I can tell you it sucks. It’s no picnic especially in a down economy when other employment is hard to come by. I was also part of a company that took paycuts to supposedly mitigate furloughs. They didn’t. The furloughs happened anyway and I never saw that money again. We even had SnapBack provisions that were violated for years. Years after recall still made less money. Voluntary measures like VILs are the only thing that will mitigate furloughs. Pay and work rule concessions will never help but ensure you work more days for less money for years, and then fight in the next CBA just to break even. It’s a fools errand. My guess is they send over a thousand warns and perhaps they need a few hundred. Covid is a moving target and they don’t even know what a month from now looks like. My guess is they take a few hundred off the bottom on October 1st and that will last at least a year. Probably recall Jan 2022 to be ready for spring break and summer. Once they have a better idea of how Covid looks good his fall maybe more furloughs in January 2021 with same recalls starting Jan 2022. One mans opinion. |
Originally Posted by Macjet
(Post 3099239)
I apologize for the lack of clarity. All of us need to consider adjusting our budgets 15-20% in order to keep our junior pilots from having to adjust 100%. I am fully onboard with an LOA or an MOU that cuts my guarantee, and my obligated days, on a defined term in order to keep our junior pilots employed. These are our fellow aviators and we owe it to them to do whatever we can to protect them and their families. Hopefully our MEC proposes a solution that can keep all of us receiving a paycheck.
Plus it undercuts the 50 hour VIL effort. Why would the company want to pay guys 50 hours to stay home when they can cut everyone’s guarantee by 15 % and pay them 61 hours and have their a&$ still work? |
Originally Posted by sioux8ships
(Post 3099407)
Genius idea! Ask Frontier how their LOA for cuts worked out years ago. I’m sure bendo will be happy to give back cuts when the airline recovers! You must’ve forgot who we work for! Where’s my quid? Getting sued during negotiations was super fun too!
Plus it undercuts the 50 hour VIL effort. Why would the company want to pay guys 50 hours to stay home when they can cut everyone’s guarantee by 15 % and pay them 61 hours and have their a&$ still work? Having said that, I’d rather try to address this through a few rounds of VIL bidding and then see where we stand. |
Originally Posted by Macjet
(Post 3099239)
I apologize for the lack of clarity. All of us need to consider adjusting our budgets 15-20% in order to keep our junior pilots from having to adjust 100%. I am fully onboard with an LOA or an MOU that cuts my guarantee, and my obligated days, on a defined term in order to keep our junior pilots employed. These are our fellow aviators and we owe it to them to do whatever we can to protect them and their families. Hopefully our MEC proposes a solution that can keep all of us receiving a paycheck.
I hate to tell you this, but the company doesn’t care, never has, only cares about their bottom line and responsibility to it’s shareholders. If you are offering concessions, which you are, it is something that is very difficult to get back from this management. What stops them from filing Chapter 11 later and we had given concessions already? You do not know what the future holds, the company may face more headwinds. Most pilot groups have realized from past experiences that concessions do not help. Why isn’t Flying the Line a mandatory requirement to read? |
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
(Post 3099436)
Not to sound crass, but that is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve heard. So I’m supposed to adjust my budget as a captain, 15-20% ($50,000-$60,000) so I can keep you as a junior guy employed? So basically after going two feet forward and one back in my 29 years as a commercial pilot, strikes, furloughs, bankruptcies, 9/11, the Great Recession and now Covid, I’m supposed to just throw out the seniority I’ve gained so you don’t face a possible short furlough? So we can go from the second lowest paid Airbus operator and set the bar even lower?
I hate to tell you this, but the company doesn’t care, never has, only cares about their bottom line and responsibility to it’s shareholders. If you are offering concessions, which you are, it is something that is very difficult to get back from this management. What stops them from filing Chapter 11 later and we had given concessions already? You do not know what the future holds, the company may face more headwinds. Most pilot groups have realized from past experiences that concessions do not help. Why isn’t Flying the Line a mandatory requirement to read? |
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
(Post 3099436)
Not to sound crass, but that is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve heard. So I’m supposed to adjust my budget as a captain, 15-20% ($50,000-$60,000) so I can keep you as a junior guy employed? So basically after going two feet forward and one back in my 29 years as a commercial pilot, strikes, furloughs, bankruptcies, 9/11, the Great Recession and now Covid, I’m supposed to just throw out the seniority I’ve gained so you don’t face a possible short furlough? So we can go from the second lowest paid Airbus operator and set the bar even lower?
I hate to tell you this, but the company doesn’t care, never has, only cares about their bottom line and responsibility to it’s shareholders. If you are offering concessions, which you are, it is something that is very difficult to get back from this management. What stops them from filing Chapter 11 later and we had given concessions already? You do not know what the future holds, the company may face more headwinds. Most pilot groups have realized from past experiences that concessions do not help. Why isn’t Flying the Line a mandatory requirement to read? |
Originally Posted by Tranquility
(Post 3099473)
Amen! Full pay to the last day!
I don’t want one single one of you senior guys willing to take a CONCESSION to save my butt. |
Fully onboard for full pay until the last day. But lol at the thought that some senior guys can’t live off $200k +. I’m not going to say we are overpaid because I sure do love the pay checks but my god we are damn selfish.
|
Originally Posted by B200 Hawk
(Post 3099492)
Fully onboard for full pay until the last day. But lol at the thought that some senior guys can’t live off $200k +. I’m not going to say we are overpaid because I sure do love the pay checks but my god we are damn selfish.
For real. I’m low seniority, but I took $120K paycut to come here for first year pay, and I’m still fine. Seniority is seniority, and I get it. I don’t want concessions either, but let’s all keep a realistic attitude here. |
Junior guy here. No concessions! If it means Im furloughed so be it. Ill still have a great place to come back to. In the meantime there are plenty of opportunities for those who look for it. Time to find new cheese.
|
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
(Post 3099436)
Not to sound crass, but that is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve heard. So I’m supposed to adjust my budget as a captain, 15-20% ($50,000-$60,000) so I can keep you as a junior guy employed? So basically after going two feet forward and one back in my 29 years as a commercial pilot, strikes, furloughs, bankruptcies, 9/11, the Great Recession and now Covid, I’m supposed to just throw out the seniority I’ve gained so you don’t face a possible short furlough? So we can go from the second lowest paid Airbus operator and set the bar even lower?
I hate to tell you this, but the company doesn’t care, never has, only cares about their bottom line and responsibility to it’s shareholders. If you are offering concessions, which you are, it is something that is very difficult to get back from this management. What stops them from filing Chapter 11 later and we had given concessions already? You do not know what the future holds, the company may face more headwinds. Most pilot groups have realized from past experiences that concessions do not help. Why isn’t Flying the Line a mandatory requirement to read? Spirit has $1.7 billion in liquid assets with a current daily cash burn rate of $1.5 million and a coming option of another $700 million in government loans. I'm not willing to do anything for the company but I'll damn sure make a small change to keep a fellow aviator from making a major one. You obviously don't care and that's your right. Be sure and share your vacation plans and pics of the new boat with your FO next time right after he/she gets their furlough notice. Don't forget to mention your seniority too. |
Originally Posted by Macjet
(Post 3099515)
I'm a Captain and nowhere in danger of having my job lost or even downgraded. So, I'm not asking you to do anything for me. However, having been furloughed I do realize what our junior pilots, the guys and gals sitting beside me, are looking at. We currently have LOA's and MOU's in place covering pilots infected with C19, LCR callout, and VIL's. Nowhere have I advocated a change to our CBA. But I am open to another MOU/LOA that for a given period of time (6 months, 9 months, etc) cuts my guarantee (let's say 61 hours for arguments sake) with the caveat that no one is furloughed. There's an expiration date to such and a clause that if one pilot is involuntarily furloughed then that LOA/MOU is terminated.
Spirit has $1.7 billion in liquid assets with a current daily cash burn rate of $1.5 million and a coming option of another $700 million in government loans. I'm not willing to do anything for the company but I'll damn sure make a small change to keep a fellow aviator from making a major one. You obviously don't care and that's your right. Be sure and share your vacation plans and pics of the new boat with your FO next time right after he/she gets their furlough notice. Don't forget to mention your seniority too. In your original post, you advocated for concessions. Don’t try and change the narrative. Also, Spirit isn’t a charity, just because they have $1.7 billion and access to more liquidity, doesn’t mean they have it there for you. |
Originally Posted by Macjet
(Post 3099515)
I'm a Captain and nowhere in danger of having my job lost or even downgraded. So, I'm not asking you to do anything for me. However, having been furloughed I do realize what our junior pilots, the guys and gals sitting beside me, are looking at. We currently have LOA's and MOU's in place covering pilots infected with C19, LCR callout, and VIL's. Nowhere have I advocated a change to our CBA. But I am open to another MOU/LOA that for a given period of time (6 months, 9 months, etc) cuts my guarantee (let's say 61 hours for arguments sake) with the caveat that no one is furloughed. There's an expiration date to such and a clause that if one pilot is involuntarily furloughed then that LOA/MOU is terminated.
Spirit has $1.7 billion in liquid assets with a current daily cash burn rate of $1.5 million and a coming option of another $700 million in government loans. I'm not willing to do anything for the company but I'll damn sure make a small change to keep a fellow aviator from making a major one. You obviously don't care and that's your right. Be sure and share your vacation plans and pics of the new boat with your FO next time right after he/she gets their furlough notice. Don't forget to mention your seniority too. |
Originally Posted by Macjet
(Post 3099515)
I'm a Captain and nowhere in danger of having my job lost or even downgraded. So, I'm not asking you to do anything for me. However, having been furloughed I do realize what our junior pilots, the guys and gals sitting beside me, are looking at. We currently have LOA's and MOU's in place covering pilots infected with C19, LCR callout, and VIL's. Nowhere have I advocated a change to our CBA. But I am open to another MOU/LOA that for a given period of time (6 months, 9 months, etc) cuts my guarantee (let's say 61 hours for arguments sake) with the caveat that no one is furloughed. There's an expiration date to such and a clause that if one pilot is involuntarily furloughed then that LOA/MOU is terminated.
Spirit has $1.7 billion in liquid assets with a current daily cash burn rate of $1.5 million and a coming option of another $700 million in government loans. I'm not willing to do anything for the company but I'll damn sure make a small change to keep a fellow aviator from making a major one. You obviously don't care and that's your right. Be sure and share your vacation plans and pics of the new boat with your FO next time right after he/she gets their furlough notice. Don't forget to mention your seniority too. Have you not learned anything from our last contact??? STOP NEGOTIATING ON A PUBLIC FORUM!!!! |
Originally Posted by Timeismoney
(Post 3099550)
Have you not learned anything from our last contact??? STOP NEGOTIATING ON A PUBLIC FORUM!!!!
|
What happened last time?
|
How about no negotiating ever. Our contract isn’t up for negotiations and Spirit isn’t going bankrupt in the near future. Voluntary VILs and that’s it. I’m not giving up ANYTHING! Not pay, not guarantee, not work rules. Nothing!
Been furloughed and earned that merit badge already. It sucks but concessions don’t save jobs. We don’t know what Covid looks like a week from now or a month from now. We went from zero flying to flying 75% in July, to pulling back in August. We have no idea where this goes. Taking any kind of action on our part would be foolish. Let BLM or protests grab headlines and Covid fall from the headlines and people will buy tickets again. I’m not saying we’re going back to last years numbers but we need to take a step back and let things happen. There is no hospital ship or field hospitals being built. Cases rising will only scare for so long. When more and more people know other that have had it and recovered the more they be willing to move about. Its a bad situation for sure and we will furlough but taking cuts isn’t going to stop that. The massive warn numbers will be a scare tactic. Watch spirit work their spin machine. They are playing this perfectly so far. |
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
(Post 3099436)
Not to sound crass, but that is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve heard. So I’m supposed to adjust my budget as a captain, 15-20% ($50,000-$60,000) so I can keep you as a junior guy employed?
|
Not to sound crass, but that is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve heard. So I’m supposed to adjust my budget as a captain, 15-20% ($50,000-$60,000) so I can keep you as a junior guy employed? In the mean time, sure would be nice to keep my house this winter though |
Originally Posted by MainlineorSuici
(Post 3099893)
Kind of have to agree that sounds comical as 100% of my pre-tax income here is less than your 15-20% paycut:rolleyes: I do respect seniority though. You earned that paycheck and one day I will too:D
In the mean time, sure would be nice to keep my house this winter though |
Concessions have never saved any jobs nor prevented a company from filing chapter 11. If they need it that badly they’ll go through bankruptcy to get it. Being furloughed sucks, I get it, I’ve been there. That being said, pay cuts will not prevent or lessen furloughs.
|
Originally Posted by MainlineorSuici
(Post 3099893)
Kind of have to agree that sounds comical as 100% of my pre-tax income here is less than your 15-20% paycut:rolleyes: I do respect seniority though. You earned that paycheck and one day I will too:D
In the mean time, sure would be nice to keep my house this winter though This place is in survival mode. I don’t think any of our jobs are completely safe. We don’t know what the future holds, a merger, bankruptcy, downgrades management tactics. I’ll say it again, this place does not care and will be looking to extract anything it can from this group. Ignore their scare tactics. |
For the record I assumed we were talking about taking VILs, not concessions :D
|
I don’t see them offering long term VILs doesn’t benefit them in anyway. We will get furloughed the question will be 6 months or greater. I believe they have to tell you whether it will be less or greater than 6 months.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
Originally Posted by Sheg0theD
(Post 3100019)
I don’t see them offering long term VILs doesn’t benefit them in anyway. We will get furloughed the question will be 6 months or greater. I believe they have to tell you whether it will be less or greater than 6 months.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro also a senior CA VIL saves more than first year pay and benefits. VILs they can dictate what bases and seats they ask for. Furlough and the displacements happen and they have to pay for moves and right seat qual for downgrades. now obviously as first year pilots roll in to second year pay those numbers start to change a bit where a senior pilot pay isn’t changing much. So if longer term the furlough does save more than the VIL. Moves get pricey fast though. |
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
(Post 3099925)
Unfortunately, no amount of cuts would change that fate. Plenty of spirit pilots have seen this show before either here or at another company. History should be the guide.
This is a very unique beast and simply quoting from past labor mantras isn't truly looking at the current landscape. |
Originally Posted by skigambia
(Post 3100197)
To compare what is happening today to the past is short sighted or even ignorant. This is a health crisis that has created an economic crisis. The quicker the health crisis is solved the sooner we will see a rebound. Previous furloughs in this industry were largely a result of bad management, or deep economic woes. Even today, as we speak, the airlines are in a strong position financially.
This is a very unique beast and simply quoting from past labor mantras isn't truly looking at the current landscape. |
Mods, please lock this thread based on idiots negotiating publicly for something hypothetical and overall stupidity. Apparently nothing was learned during our last CBA negotiations. Thanks.
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:36 AM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands