Attrition
 

I think it’s funny how everyone thinks fixing first year pay will fix all our attrition problems. Doesn’t JB have one of the highest first year pay in the industry? Yet, you go their page on APC and guess what, they have the same attrition topic running on their form. In fact JB has one of the highest pay rates in the industry and they are still have attrition problems. Sorry but I don’t think increasing first year pay will stop our problems. We have so many other issues in our current contract that need to be addressed. Even if we fixed everything in our contract and got exactly what we wanted we would still be losing guys to the legacies. This topic is a waste of time.


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I guess we just can't seem to agree that the entire paradigm has changed when it comes to hiring pilots. This is a post pandemic sea change. Spirit will start to care when they have to cancel flights for lack of pilots. It will happen. Robin Hayes has already admitted that pilot pay will go up substantially when he said all airlines will need to keep up with the big four to attract and retain pilots. I actually suspect that if we negotiate a JCBA, pay won't be one of the sticky issues up and down the entire pay scale.

I do have a simple question. What are you willing to give up for the other 95%+ of the NK pilot group to give the 1st year guys a raise?

I think you are right - we will just have to agree to disagree. Some people have been pushing your theory at NK since the contract before this one - the one that became amendable in 2015:

https://www.floridatrend.com/print/article/23892

and it hasn’t worked yet, NK first year pilots are still subject to industry lagging pay and certainly industry lagging benefits. How long something must not work until one is convinced it is not going to work is anyone’s opinion but seven years is adequate to convince me that it will never happen with the NK management who will simply continue reducing the qualifications for incoming pilots until they can fill classes. They ENJOY the ATTRITION because it keeps the FO cadre junior and at the bottom of their payscale.
if they actually had to pay more to recruit, train, and pay new hires than they did to allow the attrition they would have raised the pay for FOs and junior CAs years ago.

I’ll concede that B6 has done better and that Robin Hayes has conceded that pay raises are coming, but I sincerely doubt that has anything to do with anyone severely underpaying first year pilots because JetBlue historically HASN’T done so and weren’t doing so before the pilot shortage became acute.

What does puzzle me is how a union person - in any union - believes they can build unity through tossing their junior people to the dogs. That just amazes me.

What did JetBlue give up to get their first year guys where they are today? And why should NK first year guys be paid any less than B6 first year guys? NK pilots have been waiting two contracts over a decade - waiting for NK management to provide B6 level first year pay without “wasting” leverage and it hasn’t happened.

Their issue is stagnation and desirable bases being senior. Apples and oranges.

Oh I can’t wait for this answer. “JB gave us a raise out of the goodness of their hearts. We didn’t give up anything. In fact we all got a new Lexus to aid in our mental recovery.”

2006 f9 first year was 55. Later it was pattern bargained down to cal, amr 30ish. Cal had no healthcare for the first 6 months. Amr went a decade without fixing first year, they hadn’t hired so nobody was on first year pay. This has been going on for over a decade and we’re where we are today based on leverage and timing of agreements at the time of signing. 3 years ago is not the same as today. I’m fairly confident whoever nk negotiates a jcba with first year will get fixed based on todays environment (other cbs and shortage).

Ted’s latest response to the attrition problem is “anybody that wants to leave, can leave”

This 👆🏻 And to a certain extent, no prospect of WB flying.

also, wasting negotiating capital on 1st year pay is moronic. JB has adequate 1st year pay and benefits. It’s a livable wage. Years 2—retirement are what matters.