So what I read in this is that JetBlue should have the advantage since they’re a superior airline? The poster is correct, based on Spirit’s order book relative to its size, a Spirit pilot currently has higher career expectations (ie seniority gain) than a JB pilot with JetBlue’s total orders relative to its size. It is what it is. The fact that regional FOs use NK as a rating factory has absolutely zero bearing on the integration other than the fact it apparently makes you feel good to point it out.

By comparison, in a NK and F9 marriage, the F9 pilots would have have greater career expectations than NK pilots. F9 is smaller, yet has a larger order book resulting in higher seniority gain for a current pilot.

I do agree with you that the purchasing airline’s pilot group should gain a slight edge, but it should be negligible. ALPA has their merger policy and it will be followed if the time comes. I don’t think, however, it considers which airline’s passengers have the nicer carryon luggage.

 

Don't knock Hefty Lawn&Leaf bags until you've tried one.

 

B6 had a spirit guy a class or two ago apparently. And I know a spirit guy who came to B6, and then UA.

190s are going away. If the merger goes thru they’ll be gone in probably 2-3 years max. Without the merger, at least 10 will be gone next year, at least 20 in 2024, the bulk of the rest in 2025, and the last couple lease returns are Q1 2026.

If the merger happens, they’ll likely be gone before any NK pilot is flying metal on a B6 certificate. So an NK pilot has zero career expectation of flying an 190. And no B6 pilot has a career expectation of flying an E190 in 5 years. And only a few do in 3 years.

So let’s talk A220-300. In an apples to apples seating config, it’s the same size as an A319. And at B6, a 220 pilot makes more than an NK 319-321 pilot. And B6 has more 321s and more on order. So, from a career expectations standpoint, it’s about a wash at best, and potentially even skewed in favor of B6.

I think the arguments for SLI will mostly be around DOH and pre-merger percentage.

 

Still waiting in an actual logical reason b6 thinks they should destroy our seniority. I asked this in another chat looking for actual arguments, not emotional reasons, only got one answer and it involved the retirement numbers.

 

BeatNavy- the fact the 190s are going away is good for you guys on the basis of status/category but bad for you on the basis of career expectations. That part will take into account current number of aircraft, number aircraft on order, and number of aircraft scheduled to be returned. That last part is not good for the equation.

 

Thank you. Yes that was my thought.Teddy Bendo Miller will have to fix stuff before we get to the JCBA. I don't think B6 wants to hear about 40 pilots/month attrition for the next 2 years. They want 4000 pilots to come with the deal. And F9 and NK will have to solve this problem together.

 

Having been through ALPA merger training myself, it’s alarming how spectacularly uneducated most people are in this thread, on both sides, about a policy that is readily available publicly and has significant precedence available from numerous previous mergers.

I said this when it was F9/NK and the same applies if it ends up being B6/NK, the JCBA has a far greater impact on all of our careers and futures than how an arbitrator will piece us together. Stop all the d!@k measuring and realize it’s us, all of us, against them. They revel in the notion that we would be fighting each other instead of them.

 

How do you have an “slight edge” that is negligible?

 

Exactly and if we do merge we need each other to take on the company.

 

So 2 guys went to JB, and 1 hasn’t left yet, got it.
Based on orders, and investor publications, JB plans to grow 3%/yr for the next 6 years. NK plans 15%, and if half of that happens, it’s still twice what JB is planning. Pay difference is $10/hr. Upgrade a year earlier, and it pays the difference for the next 10 years.