Sprontier, Please!
 

The reason I came to Spirit would die if the BOD decides to take the cash with B6. NK/F9 allows our blended family to be disfunctional together. Already B6 pilots are showing they have a chip on their shoulder where I see their company sailing with no port in mind.
I don't like BF but I think his days are numbered. F9 sweetens the offer (more cash and one of the board seats) and we move in together.
Here's to hoping they are just going through the fiduciary motions and that B6 goes away.

I agree. From day one of the F9/NK news, everyone from both sides were acting great to one another and knew we were on the same team. Day one of the JB announcement and it’s how JB is going to win in a SLI. Add to that that after a merger, it’s going to be stagnant. No thanks. I didn’t want to work at Delta, definitely don’t want to work at Delta jr.

I’m starting to finally learn why in the last ten years corporate America has spent so much money ballooning HR departments and creating “culture”. People seem to actually care how their job makes them feel. It’s a job! I come here for one reason and that’s money. I couldn’t care less about any company’s culture. I want the most money and the most time at home. It’s all about the money and that’s how a board of directors thinks and how CEOs think. Nobody cares how it makes any of us feel. It’s a job.

I like the way you think.

And since it's just a job you're browsing the boards over your morning coffee to remind us of that? I don't think that's how you or most people think.

I think the problem with the ULCC model for the foreseeable future is staffing. The seniority lists are being hired away, recruits are looking elsewhere and new hires are as well.

That’s not changing anytime soon with Franke at the helm or his son I’d imagine. F9 might go one to be the preeminent ULCC, but I suspect the other carriers will let them/us have that market and ask very simply if the deliveries can be staffed.

I'm not even in this career field but I'm perusing. I think that many people will put up with a place without a great work environment if they are paid a higher standard pay (not bonuses, etc) and so on.

Actually yes. It’s a big part of my life and I don’t want to lose it, because it’s how I make a living. However, if I had enough money for to live the rest of my life without showing up again, I would quit today and never look back.

My point was culture at work, or whatever fake values HR invents, or rah rah becoming the biggest ULCC “powerhouse”, or mini legacy LCC mint whatever is of no importance to me.

Getting the biggest contract with the most pay the best benefits, the best retirement, and the most time off is all that matters. If it’s JB then that’s what I want. If it’s frontier then that’s what I want. That’s how the board thinks. Money only. Right now the JB offer is more money for shareholders so there is no way they can or will take frontier unless frontier offers more money or another airline (not out of the question) comes in the other more money.

If I have offers on my house and the ******* is offering 30% more than a sweet couple looking for a forever home I’m selling to the *******. You don’t leave big money on the table because you like the people behind the lower offer. In our case at spirit they are both *******s

Preach, brother. Don’t tell delta pilots that, though. Some of them will smack you with the pointy end of their hats then smother you in their double breasted horse blanket.

I had a friend (not a pilot) 40 years old actually tell me that culture was a big reason he works where he works. I couldn’t believe it. I was thinking he’s telling me when the rubber meets the road that if another company offers him more money for the same job he’s going to choose “culture”? I don’t think so.

Every December my wife is always asking me (rhetorically) why we don’t get to attend any fun corporate holiday parties like all of our friends. I always tell her it’s because I make 100% more than most of our friends and about 800% more retirement so get a babysitter and where would you like to go to dinner.

“The reason I came to spirit dies with JetBlue” as the OP said. Huh?! I came to spirit bc I live in a base and I can make more money and have more time off that way. This constant mantra of we are a “family” that ever corporation now uses is irritating. That is completely insulting to my actual family. We are coworkers. We all come here to make the company money so they can pay us more. Simple. Not a family.

Also as a JetBlue pilot, I will say many people on our forum are extreme. Vast majority of pilots I’ve met here are great people. You are of course still entitled to feel the merger is a bad idea, but please don’t judge us from our few “crazy uncles” on the internet :D

it’s the regional model that is dying and the most common career path in the future will be CFI to either ULCC or ACMI to legacy. But that’s the future. Right now everybody is going to be thrashing while the regionals die for lack of CAs and the majors struggle (some more than others) for FOs.

Truth…..filler

Well that’s just not true. Spirit pilots where showing their didn’t want to be dragged down by frontier contract. That is with both pilot groups and companies being pretty similar. You’re now blaming JetBlue pilots that would get shafted with a relative seniority list from being annoyed of losing that seniority? Trust me Jetblue pilots know this isn’t a legacy carrier. We know we aren’t Delta, United, and American. I wouldn’t expect any less from those airline pilots if they were going to lose years of seniority to JetBlue pilots.

This thread is also childish as the company could care less about the opinion of the pilots of who they rather join. I’ve seen some from your group wanting the JetBlue merger more than frontier. I wish you were right though and JetBlue and spirit didn’t mix seems like your hostility and name calling doesn’t help the relationship anymore than a JetBlue pilot defending why he shouldn’t lose years of seniority.

A pilot's opinion on any of this is worthless until it is time to vote on a JCBA with xyz airline.

But by all means, keep hamstering away and getting worked up over it.

I offer my opinion to other pilots, not the company. I don't want to argue about seniority list stuff as it's divisive and we will never get a say in how it goes down. You're supporting my point that an F9NK merger would be more positive.

Ben Baldanza has said the pilots do have a say - indirectly. Pilot input can have sway on the regulatory approval, especially in a labor friendly administration. His sentiment, not mine. Take it or leave it.

Jet Blue please.

Both potential mergers have their pros and their cons, but can you PLEASE not start with this crap and set this up to be the next US/HP style fiasco? I realize most people realize that only the vocal few take to the boards, but common, man.

And I’d much rather end up at a JB style place than a ULCC when the music stops and we can’t find butts for seats to grow any more. Either way, I’m along for the ride and would like to welcome our new overlords, whoever they might be.

The reasons you came to NK are going to die if we don't get and retain pilots. Period. We cannot only hire our way out of this attrition, we need to retain. If you're that worried about a B6 merger, I'd advise to get out now and start accruing seniority at one of the Big3. Good luck! We're all going to need it one way or the other.

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Man, is this ever a first world problem. Pilots haven’t had a hiring environment or leverage like this in decades.

https://i.ibb.co/gDSSLJX/682-FA491-0...B2-A3-BA66.jpg

I'm good. The company's attrition is not my problem. When the dust settles we'll all be in a better spot, wherever that may be.

Sprontier, Please!
 

No Bill Franke is a win.

JetBlue signed inaugural ALPA contract and it is superior to our 4th (?) contract at Spirit.

No Bendo would be another win.

Have you ever spent time at a shrinking airline? The company’s attrition is definitely your problem unless you’re very close to the top of the list. Otherwise, you move up the list and it just shrinks behind you while your overall seniority gets worse and worse.

I think what he meant to say is that it is out of his and our control. Management has to figure it out.

ORD, DTW, ACY, and DFW CAs. For those still holding these bases, ask yourself if you think JBLU is going to keep these bases open. Having flights and gates in these markets to compete against Legacy hubs isn’t the same as staffing bases there.

F9 merger is the best opportunity to keep the bases we have due to the simple model of how we fly, city pairs.

JBLU might get you some more money hourly but at what cost. Devil is in the details.

BOOM
and stuff

I absolutely believe JB will keep many/most of those bases open. Part of their problem is being so east coast and FLL centric. It's biggest strength is also it's biggest weakness during IROPS. Having most of your eggs tied up in a concentrated area makes it difficult to dig themselves out of those disasters. Having options in the midwest helps and also opens up Jetblue instantly and in greater concentration to areas they have no or very little presence currently.

I read something in the investor pitch basically saying they want to expand out. It would only
make sense to keep established bases and grow them, but who knows? What do they do with the 170+ Spirit air frames while they’re being retrofit?

Showing how to type out of a butt in real time above!

Not that any of us has any say in the matter, but how is keeping your relative seniority equate to loosing seniority? I think you’d be annoyed that you’re not gaining relative seniority.

sounds like a mgmt problem…….

And you think the pilot’s opinion is going to somehow change the siyuation if the owners say sell?

This entire thread is spirit pilot’s opinions, read “opinions”, on why many of us would like to see Frontier merge with us, instead of JBLU. It’s an opinion, not thinking this sways anything. It’s like your “opinion” on first year pay and how that won’t sway anything

And, like your opinion on first year pay, may soon become a moot point in any event…

https://i.ibb.co/pKTDQ5p/01953-C8-F-...E511-AF952.jpg

Listen to your soon to be new Overlord, Robin; he said in the call that pilot rates will have to increase just to keep up supply. Like 99% of us have said, market forces fixes this, not capital. Sorry man, this is Economics 101 showing that your stance is/was wrong.

Nope. Just showing they treated their first year guys better than NK did.

100%
I'd rather be at a destination airline with on-par pay and bennies to the legacies than go with F9 and see this place become a revolving door regional pilot farm. When Sprontier goes to minimum pilots *by design* no one is going to get more than min days off, no matter how senior.

So yeah, it's a management problem and I don't think NK or F9 management giving two flying turds about retention.
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The displacement bid was just testing the waters. Something is going to get the ax. After any merger there is going to be some house cleaning, guaranteed. Doesn't matter which airline.

Personal bet: I bet DTW and DFW are the most vulnerable. DFW prob more.

Keep a dead city, and axe a fast growing city, makes sense

Right??? So there are 4470+ JetBlue pilots and because some of you get into a rubbing match, JB pilots BAD. Lol y'all saw how your own guys on here talk shyt too? Or is it just one way?

I can tell you one thing, I have not flown with a JB pilot that I wouldn't want to fly with again. Also if it becomes JBNK, listen to the person that posted about this "culture" idea a few pages back...don't suck on to that "Family" and "culture" thing. Its a business, have fun with your crew on overnights, go home. Unify when it's time to negotiate. Mgmt is not your family.

JetBlue mgmt would love you for saying "Culture" is important to u.

Get your feelings outta your ass and unify when it comes to JCBA, regarless of if it F9NK OR JBNK