Why would anyone come here now? Serious Q
 

It's no longer "better than a regional". Legacies are hiring just as easy and have significantly faster upgrade times.

Why is any new hire coming here currently?

If any recent new hires could chime in or people with upcoming class dates?

Things have changed so drastically there must be some piece of this puzzle that I am missing.

I was going to say free type rating, but I do remember having to dip into my savings while I was on the miserable training pay. Not really free. Not to mention no health insurance for a couple months.

I gave up $30/hr in pay to come here. Simply put better qol. I live in and near a second one. The second would be a faster path to a legacy. Regional FOs sure are getting paid but aren’t getting hours and it’s looking like 4+ years to get the hours to be competitive at legacies. Not to mention legacies will look more favorably at you since they see it as taking a pilot from a competitor.

There’s also the prospect that regional pay is only going to outpace spirit for a couple months as they are negotiating new rates as well. I don’t see their pay being less than regional pay once all is said and done. Needless to say even at the current rate by the end of year 2 at spirit you’ve basically broken even since youre $30/hr less than first year and about $30/hr more year two. By year 3 you’re making captain level pay at the regional. (I know I’m stretching some numbers but I’m not splitting hairs over a few dollars.)

Not a new hire and don't work for NK, but work for someone very similar. I think the big attraction is FL/NV bases since legacies don't have bases there (besides aa and swa). Rumor is UA is looking into FL base, that will definitely be a game changer for NK/B6 and F9. Depending on equipment it will probably go sr on CA side and much more obtainable on FO side.
Personally I think all of the attrition is in our favor, we have 30+ 321NEOs scheduled for 2023. Management knows pay needs to be addressed yesterday.

This is purely an opinion. Spirit has lost about 90 pilots to each AA, UA and DL this year. That's only ~270 pilots. That's less than one months' hiring totals at the big 3. Compare that to regional pilots that have gotten on. There is a MUCH larger percentage that have gotten picked up from the regionals. I'd guess that 60-70% of the Spirit pilot group has their apps out. If the legacies really cared about hurting us they would literally just empty the seniority list... But they don't. Many people here aren't getting calls.

No. Year 3 CA pay now at regionals is in the realm of 140-150/hr. Year 3 FO pay here is 122.60. That is NO WHERE close to the same rate. Didn't realize 20-30/hr is splitting hairs.... With the looming merger, if hired now, you won't be upgrading before then. So the quickest anyone is upgrading is atleast 5 years at this point.

There is literally no reason to come to Spirit anymore.

I’ve been told by no less than 4 people who have been here for about a year to two years saying a lot have been contacted and offered a job. I’m willing to bet a lot more people have gotten offers while not everyone accepted them. A long time friend got called a week after he received his type. He turned them down as he plans to stay at spirit. More people are willing to stay at spirit than people at the regional. Legacies right now are taking pretty much anyone who is eligible and competitive. But when hiring slows which I believe it has compared to the immediate post Covid wave, they’ll take someone with time in an a320 at a competitor over a regional fo (there’s many other factors obvious. It’s the same reason if you want to go to delta don’t go to endeavor go to envoy. If you want to go to American don’t go to a WO. The legacies take more pilots from competitors than they do their own regional carrier.

As for the pay you can add in the fact that it’s easy to credit more than mmg and pick up double pay. My previous carrier it was common for a first year to to finish with 150hrs on the year. That’s 0 career progression in my mind. Soft pay is just as important. While you cant count on it to pay your bills the reality is first year it’s pretty easy to finish at the same yearly pay or close to it and year two you’re already making up that difference. If we see a pay increase in the next 3-6 months that just be icing on the cake.

Spirit still has a better QOL and high MDG than most regionals. Pay rates will eventually get higher even if it’s after the merger happens.

What quality of life? Junior FOs here can’t do anything during IOT and the reserve grid goes red quickly in the junior bases, so forget about DOT. Those 10 hour 3 days with redeyes certainly don’t add to my quality of life.

*MOST* being the key word there but ERJ line holders at Skywest and republic are getting 15-16 days off and 85-90 hours credit @ $90+ an hour. Sorry but the QOL argument has gone by the wayside as well. They also aren’t doing 10hr 3 day and 15 4 day trips like we are doing here at Spirit.

If you live in a skywest base or rpa base yeah less reason to come to spirit. If you live in a spirit base not commuting is the biggest qol factor. Line holder at the regional has frozen at basically early 2022 or late 2021 hire. Regionals losing lines at every base because they can’t staff the planes with captains. Right now at rpa is at least a year on reserve and it’s a year on reserve with little to no flying is the bigger issue. So commuting to just sit in a hotel or crash pad for a week is much worse than a new hire would have at spirit imo. Some people want to get paid to sit around not working. I’d much rather be home if I’m on reserve not being utilized. But I’d much rather go somewhere I’m being utilized and progressing in my career.

Let us know your thoughts when you finish training and are flying the line making >30% less than a 1st year FO on an RJ.

If that’s the case it’s because I’ll be sitting at home chillen instead of commuting 12hrs to and from base spending spending 7 days away from home on a 6 day reserve schedule. I’m ok making less money if it means not commuting not spending money on hotels or ****ty crashpads. At the very least while all my friends are sitting around not flying on reserve and finishing year one with 150hrs I’m expecting to be around 700-800hrs around the same time. Idc about racing to upgrade. If I’m here long enough to upgrade or become a jet blue pilot great, I’m not racing out the door. But if I get time quick enough and get an offer from a legacy that’s ultimately my goal. The sooner I can build more time the sooner I can be picked up. If I can get to a legacy in 2-3 year vs 5-6 staying at a regional it’s worth it to have made the jump to spirit.

Why don’t you go to a regional?

So there’s a couple reasons why I came to spirit.

First and foremost is a base, and that’s a huge reason for a lot of us. I didn’t commute long but for the time I did I could see it wouldn’t be sustainable long term for me.

Second, it’s a gamble. I was a line holder at a regional that hasn’t met current rates still, so if I stayed I’d make the same next year essentially that I will at spirit. Plus if the economy gets hit next year I feel a little more secure at NK. I took the chance now because I’m afraid the music will stop. I figure with training and OE I’d essentially take about 3-3.5 months off flying and making time, which I was willing to accept

Lastly I am a JetBlue fan, but the base I’m im for B6 is decently senior. But if we do end up merging which seems more and more likely to actually happen I’ll be here probably around 3-4 years by that point if I stay, hopefully I get either some kind of fence to keep my base or my seniority can just hold it.

All in all it’s a gamble but I feel like I made a vertical move to more stability instead of a lateral move in the regionals. Maybe I leave, maybe I go. Might be a career destination.

‘There is literally no reason to come spirit anymore’

‘this is purely and opinion’

just quoting your 2 very ironic posts.

You’re going to block 700-800 hours in your first year here?

Currently 135 but I am interested for the DFW base. Hoping you guys will have a new pay scale to make the first year manageable by the time I’m ready to apply. Don’t care to hop to a regional in case the music stops, I’d rather be at a larger carrier if that were to happen.

Reserve is much, much worse at Regionals. Not only that, depending on your base, holding a Line is exponentially better than being at a Regional.

It's also absolutely untrue that 'Junior FO's' can't do anything in IOT. Firstly, we both know it depends on your base. Secondly, the only part of the Reserve Grid that goes Red during DoT is weekends; which you shouldn't be expecting to get anyway as a Junior FO. Thirdly, even the first month you can hold a line you can avoid redeyes. Even if you get one, you can downtrade into other trips to avoid such a thing. Could you possibly get one? Sure.

I don't understand why you're talking like the world is about to end, especially when what you said is absolutely untrue or could be true depending upon your particular situation.

It also blows my mind while people talk so much crap about an airline, apparently hate it so much, yet don't leave; especially in this environment.

Glad to hear you’re thriving.

dont come here for the Dallas base. Future is very cloudy for it.

I wouldn't particularly call it 'thriving', but it sure as hell beats a Regional. Are there things I could complain about? Sure. Are there things I would like to see be done differently? Sure.

But saying extreme things like "Why would anyone want to come here" is just short-sided. Everyone wants everything to better, always. Go talk to some AA guys, whom are much higher paid than us, and ask how they're doing. They make a lot more money. Do you think they're happier? Their not.

I personally do not care about working at the highest paid airline, as long as it is compensated with QoL; which Spirit is probably at the Top 3 at (given the current hiring environment). If all you care about is working at the highest paid airline, Spirit will never be for you.

This attitude is completely defeatist and toxic. Just stop

Bendo, is that you? Did you become a FO?

No, clearly just one of our new short-sided FO’s!

That post gave me a headache just trying to read it.

Aside from ready reserve, our reserve is exactly the same as it is at a regional. It might actually be worse, due to the amount of 1 and 2 day trips here. Lots of back and forth to the airport. The world isn't ending here, but let's look at the big picture: Most of us came here for quality of life and bases. Both have been eroded over the last 7-8 months. Trips are inefficient, and we work more days for less pay. A new hire at Mesa will get around 40-50k more in their first year. FWIW, I am leaving, I am just waiting on a class date.

How is getting only 12 days off at a Regional better than being on Reserve at Spirit, again? I'm not sure if you're aware, but I think a fair amount of people like 1-2 day trips. Oddly enough, the most senior people in this company solely bid Locals.

I understand a lot of people came here for the QoL. I did the same. However, I also understand that the last 1-2 years aren't typical times. Even when I started here, you could drop literally anything and everything, no matter the base. That isn't exactly the case now, but to say that other Legacies / Majors don't also have that same problem is just being oblivious.

Our reserve people only get 12 days off, not sure what you are referencing? I bet the 100s of captains displaced out of their base who are now commuters love those 1-2 day trips. Must be a dream to commute from ORD or DFW to ATL or FLL and spend a fortune in Ubers back and forth to the airport.

Spirit Reservists get 12 days off? Since when? I think you should check the people below your seniority. You know, those that actually know what it is like, as opposed to those that act like they know what they're talking about.

Make no mistake about it. I'm not defending what the company does. My base is getting downgraded too. My original point was to say that Spirit still is not a bad place to be. If you want to move on that is fine, but is still is largely better than any Regional. Pay rates are one thing, but there are many more factors involved.

I just checked my schedule and yep, 12 off next month. Looks like the company is following 12.E.1.
4.5 hours of credit per day and a min guarantee of 72 makes this pretty simple to figure out. But you probably knew this right? (4.C.1.b)

Out of curiosity, which bases on the FO side tend to have greener reserve grids?

Understood. Hoping for clarity on its future and for y’all to get a raise before I’m at mins.

It’s pretty simple, as the company has spoke about this as recently as a few days ago on the investor call.

The company is not at full utilization, and won’t be for a while. They need as many resources (crews) in markets that make the most money (Florida) to help increase productivity/utilization etc and help lower CASM numbers as well.

As long as we can’t staff the airline fully, they will pull resources to the areas that make the most money. Currently that is not DFW, DTW and ORD.

The argument against 1-2 day trips is ridiculous. As a relatively senior local I cannot hold these trash pairings. When they do pop up in open time you have to be ready to log in and pick it up. For a while we had far more 4-day trips which make your schedule much less flexible.

2x

People keep spewing that argument and it makes me wonder if they even work here.

3x

The ability to be home more with 1-3 day trips makes this place more tolerable. Short trip lengths go senior. Junior pilots aren’t getting stuck with 1-2 day trips. No way

Just looked, and there are 53 1 and 2 day trips in open time for November in my base/category. Those will go to reserves.

What base? I think FLL has the most

I didn’t know you were an FO, thought you have been here for 7-8 years. I can’t speak to the FO open time, but if it’s in FO open time it’s gonna have a lot to do with the massive amounts of drops FOs are doing to hold out for that X list pay. And the fact we are still understaffed on the FO side.


FOs I fly with say how most are dropping their sweet 1-3 day trips for the chance at an X list. If we were staffed, I doubt they would be dropping these days.

In the end, I’ve not heard 1 FO complain about the increased mix of 1-3 day trips.

You must not be a captain then

The difference in QOL between a Line holding CA and a 1st year RSV F/O is night and day. I think this thread got off topic, we shouldn’t be talking about how awesome QOL is for line holding captains in base (it’s really good!) If some one coming to spirit now could expect that in 3 years, then yes it would be relevant, but I don’t think any new hire can expect that. It’s going to be a long time to upgrade and hold a line as Capt. for new hires, much longer than most airlines.