Yeah, at a minimum I think they’ll need a snap-up to get TA-2 across the finish line now. Before the JB TA, I figured it woukd pass. Now, not so much…

I think it fails. Then the company will only negotiate a full section 6. In other words, nothing till JCBA, which I’m fine with to get a good one.

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

I'd rather us shoot this one down and try again. Maybe we don't get there before the merger but least we won't go down in history as the low tier pilot group who drug the entire industry down during times of unprecedented leverage. That's not exactly the "legacy" that I want to be associated with building.

i will say, I’ve ditched the orange “building our legacy” lanyard.

Yeah, that thing went straight to the garbage when the TA came out.

Ditto.

Stuff...

so you wear your old red “ready to strike” one then?

Serious question, at what point would we get a retro check? Say if we vote no as we all should. Then negotiations dragged out until jbca would we qualify for them?

Yep. Technically they could start at the amendable date. However I don’t think anyone has actually ever gotten full retro.

I'm guessing any retro pay will be negotiable as well, most likely to a date within the month an AIP is reached.

I made my own that says "willing to settle for less"

Needless to say it's quite a hit with the ladies in the terminal around our gates

This is the dumbest logic ever. You understand if you voted in the pay increase you would still negotiate the JCBA? So in your scenario were to put out the only people losing anything would be NK pilots?

“we’ll get em next time”

That’s what our lanyard should say.

Same...

utterly embarrassing. Thank you b6 for reminding me what a ****ty @$$ group I have to work with and clowns I work for.

Company can’t do that. They may want to and they may try but they cannot afford to.

Would you like to phone a friend?

From the roadshow, apparently there’s no guarantee that we would go back to the table if this was voted down is what it sounded like. Some say it’s a scare tactic, but what if it isn’t? What if management drags this out until JCBA? Are y’all willing to risk that not having a pay raise until a JCBA? Just curious where y’all stand if this is the case

Definitely a risk, but you have to ask why they came to a TA so early. Before, negotiations dragged on for years.

They are trying to "sell" you the bull**** TA. They will say whatever they have to. Of course it's not guaranteed.... The company started negotiations 6 months before amendable date and we have a TA 3 months prior. They need it. They'll be back to negotiate. And if not, let the C-suite clean up the **** storm that will be attrition.

Its almost like they forget every regional is paying more than us right now.

Yes. At least I’ll have my dignity.

Man, same song and dance as per usual. They absolutely have to come back to the table. C-suite has a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders! They’ve put out guidance saying they’ll be profitable and utilization will return to normal in 2023! How do you think they’ll be able to do this??? Currently, their staffing plan isn’t working! So basically, they’re lying to the shareholders- unless they reign in attrition. If they park airplanes and defer orders because they can’t staff the airline- then again, they’re lying to the shareholders!!

They need this 100%! Stop buying into the fear!! Good leaders don’t lead by using fear as a weapon! Let’s ALL grow a pair!

The word you’re looking for is “pride”


All great responses from a number of you. The only concern I have is if this gets voted down, the company will drag this out until the amendable date, the economy tanks, and now we’re at the table with a bad economy and no leverage.

Of course, this might not happen, but there is a possibility of it

Well we’ve been told Spirit is recession proof so you shouldn’t have to worry about a bad economy and no leverage. Either way, you can’t vote on anything for another 9 months right?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_theory

The key is knowing if you are weighing those probabilities correctly and possibly convincing yourself one way or another. Only you can know that for yourself.

Within the Prospect theory is also the certainty principle. Basically people tend to protect the certainty of an outcome even though it’s more advantageous to risk a little bit.

Example: option A. You can have $100 with 100% certainty. Option B. You can have a 70% chance at $200 or a 30% chance at nothing.

Psychologically most people pick option A even though statistical math easily says Option B is the correct choice.

What I’m not voting for is the public expression that I’m worth $30 less an hour than a JetBlue pilot. There’s no way in west hell that I would ever endorse that idea.

Anything is possible sure and maybe they have a plan B ready to go but it’s unlikely. This management has never come to a deal they didn’t have to and this group has never sent one back. They are playing the odds that you don’t value yourself at market rate because “well spirit”.

If they wanted to drag out our current contract til the JCBA they would be doing it right now but instead they came to a deal 3 mo early which they have NEVER done. They need this to stop the bleeding and up utilization to make money. They will be back bc they have to be not because they want to be. Same reason we are where we are now.

Embarrassing compensation in this market.
No snap up
Not pairity
Sliding 1st year pay.

Agree and leverage gone. Say no and leverage just as strong or stronger than it is now. Do what you want. How do you value yourself. Every time we are going to “get them next time”. IT’S NEXT TIME!

Also think about a recession in terms of what a recession is. We already seem to be in one. Not all recessions are 2008. That was just so bad it’s what we think of. Market is down more than 20% now. Airline CEOs say they are forecasting growth and bookings are up and aren’t seeing any signs of an airline recession. It isn’t 2008. Let’s not negotiate like it is.

One thing to consider. If we agree to this TA, we pretty much are saying we are not as good as JB pilots. I wonder how much ammo this will give them come SLI. I bet it works in there favor. I can already see their union saying. “Look we both had a TA at the same time and the spirit guys are looking to us to help them out and bring them up to industry average. Of course we should get better SLI percentages”. I know I would try it if I was a JB pilot.

Of course it will. The arbitrator will look at the nice pay raise we are getting and give the B6 side more leverage in the JCBA.

Educate yourself on what happens and how. This is not factual and makes zero sense. Words matter

I guess you haven’t been around the Part 121 world for that long. Basically no company EVER settles a contract before the amendable date or for that matter anywhere near it. Instead they use the RLA to drag it out for years.

It doesn’t take much brain power to figure out what’s going on in this situation and what NK’s management’s motivations are. Use some common sense and stop being afraid of your own shadow.

I'm pretty sure they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts, it is Christmas after all! 🎄🎄🎄

It also doesn't help when your negotiating committee is pimping it and threatening not to go back to the table, like last time. Hopefully fewer fall for their nonsense this time around. The SS duo needs to go, they are a weak combo.

​​​​

Maybe we will get more than 1 person running for one of handful positions that actually elect the NC members? I always am amused with the number of “we need this” and “we need to get rid of” that and when LEC council reps come open, we get 1 or 2 people running. What was it down for 109 last time, 2 running for CA rep? 1 for 77 FO rep?

If you don’t like the original movie in 2018, as many have complained about, why would you not do anything and allow them to make the sequel in 2022?

Not directed at you, at all. This is directed at the group that constantly demands change and get doesn’t nothing to organize that change when they can. It’s so laughably easy to get “your guy” elected to an LEC position because nobody cares.

^^this. Still want my quid from the JA coup days.

That's a great idea for a lanyard.

Yes! The same group that won't come out for free sandwiches and hold a sign. WE HAVE TO BE MORE INVOLVED IF WE WANT ANYTHING.

I think I’m going to change my vote…
 

Initially I thought the TA would pass something like 65-35. But I think the JB TA is a game changer. I think this will narrowly be defeated, maybe 45 for and 55 against.

I don’t see why it should change anyones vote. Anyone with a brain knew that new B6 deal was coming soon, and that it would be a good bit higher than ours. If people were thinking intelligently, they would’ve baked that into their assumptions before it happened. Then again, not everyone thinks that way

I think the catch-up feature is part of it. That sort of guarantees a nonindustry lagging eventual contract. Some of it I think is also expectations. If JB management values their pilots enough, and JB intends for NK to become part of them, then we ought to be worth as much as the JB pilots and while, yeah, people “knew” the JB offer would be better, until they actually had a firm offer with the catchup provision that was still speculative. This now is reality.