That's a Bingo.

If the airline has scheduled flights that require staffing of 500 out of every 1000 pilots to work that day, that's how many are working. Period. Most of that coverage will be determined during the line awards, by seniority. Then after the awards the grid may or may not be green for Christmas day, even at Spirit. If 5 guys pick up trips that touch Christmas, for whatever reason, that will allow 5 guys who are more junior to drop trips that touch Christmas. There is no other magic formula, or magic potion that allows more Spirit pilots to drop Christmas day.

Spirit is a younger group. Maybe they have more guys that don't have children. Maybe the airline runs less flights or less trips that require layovers over Christmas day. Maybe you're full of dung and just don't know it. I've already told you I've never worked a single Christmas, yet you claim without data or proof that Spirit pilots get Christmas off with less seniority than JB pilots. A claim you have zero data or ability to back up.

As for holiday pay, many major holidays at JB pay 200%, for the entire block/DH, or 4 hours minimum. It's good, but I expect improvement in both days included and a higher minimum hours per day. It's a win win for the pilots. If you wanna work a holiday, you get pay and someone who doesn't want to work it gets it off. If you get stuck working a holiday (I know, that never happens at NK), at least you get 200% pay.

Got a buddy at El Al who says getting Christmas off is really pretty easy there. Hanukkah not so much.
:D

There is another phenomenon that happens at growing airlines (or airlines that have pilots switching between aircraft at other airlines) that has helped NK (and JB pilots) get Christmas off. As new pilots get released to the line from OE, they are built a RSV schedule that includes Christmas day. That adds one to the grid, and allows someone watching to drop Christmas day.

1) no one knows what benefits will stay and what benefits will go if the acquisition is approved.

2) I choose to work at spirit because of the quality of life, I could’ve applied with and gone to work for one of the “big boys” but chose Spirit because of the amazing work rules.

3) you’re right, money is not everything, but I can assure you that I can make more than enough money to pay my bills and buy my toys. The great thing is, after all of my toys are bought, I have ample time to use them.

4) the X list (overtime) and Spirit is not based off of seniority, so you can start achieving that right away. The X and y list are arranged based on how many hours of premium one has already worked for the year. The more hours of premium time you have, the farther down you are on the list and the longer it takes to get called. This gives everybody a fair shot at it.

Shouldn't write all this, it really gets in the way of Bluedriver’s narrative. God forbid you choose an airline for QOL instead of pay

DTZ shouldn't even be on the table for discussion at all since if the day is red, you can't drop it. It's no more damaging/cost more to the company to have drop to zero, 20, 50 or whatever because the bottom line is if the grid is red you can't drop. In other words if you can't hold weekends off, you aren't dropping, IME.

Show me someone that had a class date with Spirit and AA or DL or UA at the same time and chose Spirit and I'll show you a liar. Staying here after the fact is one thing. But lets not act like people are choosing NK over DL because of the "amazing work rules".

Just to be clear every airline needs the same basic percentage of pilots working on holidays. A contract can and will shift what pilots will work a holiday but it won’t change the number of pilots working.

There was one in my class who got a UA CJO and turned it down. I know of another who left for DL, hates it, and is trying to come back. LCA I recently had in the jumpseat told us about a couple guys who left for AA who are trying to come back.

They're out there.

I gave you a glimpse of the QOL I have had at Blue. You pretended it didn't exist. You don't have nearly the QOL advantage that you think you do. And I don't believe in the fallacy that you have to choose one or the other, QOL or great pay. I want both. The truth is JB has only ever had ONE full CBA negotiations. We are doing quite well considering that, and we just yesterday came to an agreement with management that increases our retirement to 17% 14 months from now, increases our pay next Aug to a MINIMUM of $356 an hour and restores a big part of our profit sharing plan, which will pay out after the dust settles from the merger. All that BEFORE we even enter JCBA negotiations.

I have every intention of keeping as much of the best of the NK contract as possible, but don't tell me stories of fiction about how NK pilots don't have to work holidays, weekends or anniversaries, work three days a month 200 hours credit, and every other airline works every holiday and weekend, works 27 days a month for minimum guarantee.

No, Spirit work rules bend gravity, and have a special reality warp. All you have to do is press the magic button on the electronic genie, and no Spirit pilot has to work a day they don't want to, including weekends, holidays, or work at all in the summer. It's yellow-dust magic.

No one is arguing that. The point is that our contract allow us to change/manipulate our schedules/bid a certain way that the legacies historically don’t get too.

Bluedriver, you sound like you hate yourself. Enjoy life more, man

Hate myself? Man you really don't know me.

I don't know about that. There are a lot of people on here arguing 2+2=5 when it comes to Holiday coverage on here....

“I know a guy who knows a guy”. Yep everyone at the legacies is so miserable they are breaking down spirits door trying to get in. Must be why we have zero attrition problems. :D

And just so we are clear having a CJO while already in class at NK is not what I said…

Man our NC and management has brain washed our pilot group so hard.

No one knows anyone on here. You just sound like it is all. I bet you’re a decent person to be around and fly with, but you seem to not a believe anyone on here about QOL and how good we have it. Is Spirit perfect, hell no. But is it better than most, I’d say so.

Hence why we shouldn’t give an inch at the table during JCBA talks. Both companies have things going for them that would make post merger JB something to reckon with!

My thoughts exactly.

Can't say so just because you maybe know 2 or 3 people at each Airline, if that. Sample size is too small to make that conclusion. Do you know the QOL of a lot of the widebody UAL peeps, how about a lot of the Captains on narrowbody Delta who gets the system working for them?

At the end of the day, that's simply your opinion, which is fine. As long as you know that. Driver gave you an idea of what his QOL is like and all you can think about is "how good we have it". You're sounding like some of the bluejuicers we have over here. You're drunk on the NK QOL mantra. No one is saying there aren't stuff we need to keep, just please don't go into JCBA thinking you need to choose QOL over compensation when your back is against the wall, let's go for both.

Looks at NKs pay rates...

Looks at Avelos new pay rates...

Yup !

I choose Gladiatorial fight to the death. Then one of them doesn’t have to work ever again. Let’s get that in JCBA. Company could sell it on pay perview and show it on board for a special price making a great profit benefiting the rest of the pilots who are left to work because the “cliff” is gone in the profit sharing language. Great idea.

Why are you comparing yourself to Avelo?

Response in red!

I explained clearly, that I have NEVER worked a Christmas at Blue. Never worked a major holiday I didn't want to. Had probably 98% of weekends off over my entire career here.

And you say that is fine for someone with 12+ years, but what about those more junior??? Do you not understand that my 12+ years INCLUDES year 1-2-3-4-5-etc??? I was junior once as well, we all were!

You're drunk on a keg of lies, filled with fantasy and illusion. You've had it explained by me. A very intelligent Delta pilot also chimed in. There is a simple basic fact you just aren't getting. The proportion of ANY given airlines pilots who work holidays and weekends is exactly the same, and is determined by how much of the airlines schedule is flown on those given days. You can't overcome gravity. Those flights ARE covered. A CBA can marginally shift a small percentage of those flights to more junior reserves, but that's it. The same proportion of pilots get forced to work those critical staffing days.

I can’t comment on AA or UAL but at Delta I routinely dropped a large portion of my schedule and Cherry picked the open time. Typically credited about 1500 hours a year without working hard.

If you were at Spirit you could have credited 3000 hours a year of credit without working a single weekend, holiday, day with bad weather, or day the Patriots are playing. /s

Don't forget your anniversary. They don't have to work those either. Especially if it falls on July 4th. No NK work on July 4th.

The point is, the company must staff more for red/ green coverage. This results in more opportunity for holidays off. This results in more opportunities for 200%.

The risk in the JCBA is the purchasing entity has a larger pilot group that doesn't value this QOL contracted agreement.

It will be given away. It won't even be sold for something for the pilot group.

Sad.

Something not highlighted in any of these threads that I’ve seen. Do NK Reserves have any ability to shift their awarded days? Can they drop reserve days? Are they aloud to X/Y or are they stuck with what they get?

Reserves got hammered last contract. No dropping or moving. Basically get what you're awarded.

More flexibility for lineholders. More 200%. More dropping. Less holidays.

Horse refused to drink, so I drowned the horse.

Reserves can X/Y, but unless you can hold weekends off, not much overtime opportunity.

You also have to be legal, which is difficult on a reserve schedule.

No picking up trips on reserve.

Horse moved, so I shot it.

So now we know why Reserve grids are green. They’ve cut the legs off the reserves so they may not run. Thanks for that.

Cart was to heavy, so I kept whipping the horse.

That’s exactly correct. Plus reserves only get 12 days off (13 in 31-day months). Lineholders get great QOL for the expense of reserves. Which is 30% + of the pilot group.

Damn I didn't know that the cost of Red/Green and DTZ was so high. Reserve is much cushier at B6, it even tends to go senior sometimes during the year due to how a little work you have to do and how much schedule flexibility it affords.

Sure would suck to not be able to move a reserve day for 3 to 4 years after you decided to take an early upgrade.

Like I said, more of you than me. You'll win.

Congratulations.

Tell me why a new to market small airline matches or betters the rates of an established major airline and I'll tell you why our rates are laughable

Reserve here sucks and is no better than at the regionals... this needs to be fixed in the JCBA. I know captains in certain bases that have been on reserve for 3 years, that's not hyperbole. Working under our reserve rules for 3 years sounds bad.

Was specifically trying to figure out where all these Green Day’s came from. Never said I don’t like DTZ, but it had to come at some expense. I wanted to know what that expense was. Now I know a majority have an option at the extreme expense of a minority.