We had both previous contract.

70% felt differently.

yes, $30/hr.

More like 60 come August.

Agree. And it's not ideal, because those with some seniority should have two viable options to bid for, lineholder and a HUMANE reserve system. Like many, I sometimes bid RSV when it suits me. Because it's not terrible, depending. The JB RSV system stills needs improvement, but the NK one sounds brutal.

The grid system doesn’t require reserves to be flogged, but most of the the decent stuff was there has been dismantled over the years. The prevailing sentiment for years while growth was at an exponential rate was you spend 2 months on reserve as a new hire and maybe 3-6 months at captain upgrade and then the rest of your career as a line holder. I’ve met a few captains here that never spent a single day on reserve in either seat at Spirit (and didn’t bypass upgrade). So reserve QOL was never a top of the list item in previous negotiations, and few pilots batted an eyelash as anything good left was eradicated. Merger aside, there could be a number of reserve quality of life improvements to existing NK work rules that would have zero impact on the grid/dtz, but there’s not a ton of enthusiasm around spending negotiating capital on that… except for the bottom 20% of captains in each base.

All jokes aside, that's going to be a fundamental difference between our two work groups. There's plenty of senior people that did reserve at JetBlue because of how cushy and easy it can be. I myself am deliberately bidding reserve for a few months to get holidays off. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just saying that there's going to be wildly different priorities there.

Now I know where the disconnect is. I thought you knew our reserve rules.

DTZ doesn’t work unless we have our reserve rules and our grid rules. DTZ comes at the expense of the reserve pilots. Having experienced longer than normal reserve time, it was okay, but I also knew how to bid to maximize my time with my particular family set up.

DTZ on its own is worthless on its own. RPA has DTZ, but no one is dropping anything since reserve over there can drop and pick up OT.

Where I think we can improve is within 48 hours of a trip. Line pilots can’t pick up a trip within 48 hours. I’d be for having reserve pilots proffer for or have aggressive pick ups. This would allow for reserve pilots who want to work, work. And pilots who don’t want to work, can stay home (within reason, of course.)

And there are very senior pilots here that bid specific reserve periods because of how rarely they are used, and with limited growth of certain bases combined with the added B6 senior pilots I think there will be more appetite for a decent desirable set of reserve rules on both seats. I was more trying to clarify how reserve diminishing here was more turning a blind eye than out of a fundamental need for it to be awful in order to support the grid system.

This 1000%. It would not impact line holder ability to drop, and allocates flying to those who really want it.

There is a fundamental disconnect here. The regional airline opinion that reserve is just something to suffer through is not going to fly with Blue pilots. We have a good number of pilots who reserve on purpose, or cycle between RSV and line when it suits them. At times RSV goes senior. We can drop or swap RSV days, and that's not going away in the name of "you'll be a lineholder someday" or "RSV only lasts XX years". The point of a collective union should be to create as many desirable positions as possible, not for some to get fat eating the rest.

Some of you seem want to leave things as they are with RSVs, and throw a small bone to them instead of allowing RSV to be 1st class citizens, that's just not going to happen.

And RSV times are increasing as our airlines get bigger and more mature. Gone are the days of the junior upgrade only being on RSV for months, that time is measured in years now.

There isn’t though.

Nowhere did I say the prevailing sentiment among the NK masses was “screw reserves”. You made the assertion that the grid/dtz only works at the detriment to reserves pilots, but it doesn’t have to be that way. However, improved reserve life has to be bargained for, and it happens that the past couple negotiations occurred during times when pilots weren’t experiencing prolonged time on reserve due to expansive growth. Boosting their QOL wasn’t high on the priority list, but it wasn’t out of malice, there were just more pressing concerns than the forward thinking “hey one day seniority progress will slow, so sweet reserve life will benefit future pilots and senior guys will want to bid down to it.” Context is important.

There have been many dropped balls in previous negotiations, but that’s spilt milk under the bridge.

Considering RSV as something to "bid down to" is part of the problem. It's not up, it's not down, it's just a choice, or should be. Only when you have made it terrible for the sake of another group does it become a 2nd or 3rd class existence.

And others in your group have made it clear that the ability for lineholders to have such great drop experiences is because RSVs can't drop/swap. That's not me saying so, it's your guys. So it clearly is at the expense of RSVs.

The JCBA is going to have to be a balanced agreement.

For what it’s worth, some folks bit reserve so they don’t fly. Depends on the month. PBS awards days off first on a reserve bid so that helps some CAs out when their grid is red.

That said, I still think the best way to go about it is to keep it the way it is and have the reserve pilots aggressive pick up trips within the 48 hour mark. That would help commuters on reserve.

Reserve pilots need to be able to drop and swap days off. Period. Any other ideas are secondary.

It used to be way better than even that. Checkerboarding (making assignments of anything other than single day trips impossible), trip integrity, deal making to make JA pay and not just for move-up pay, paid commute leg to make a trip…. Lots of stuff went bye bye with C2018. The last two were never contractually obligated, but they seemed more willing to negotiate pre-C2018…

Copy all.

Dropping and swapping days as a RSV is already JB book. Not sure how these guys think it's just gonna go away in a JCBA.

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure, I suppose. I love reserve here, I would be more than happy to show anybody my schedule on reserve. Can I drop or swap days? No but I don’t need to. I understand those who might want to adjust their schedule better might not like the schedule that we have as far as reserve. But for me, reserve is much better for my commute than having a line, I literally work five days and then I basically have five days off. Last month I flew 15 hours and credit at 105. And I can back it up. I enjoy the hell out of reserve here and plan on staying on it as long as I can. Again, YMMV.

Yes schedule flexibility can be one way. My point is you don't know how their schedule flexibility works for them, or if it works for the majority or not just by knowing 2 or 3 people. You know yours and it works great for you. It doesn't mean it's the only way to cook the QOL hotdog.

Example: I purposely bid reserve in the slow months and stay home for majority of the month(last month I only did a 2 day) plus picked up Premuim reserve (RSA) on the weekend. That works great for me this time of year. Doesn't mean that's the only QOL or the only thing I do. Everyone needs are different.

Also, you can't assume that because Driver enjoys that QOL and has 12+ years at B6 means that's the years you have to be at B6 to enjoy it. That's a false assumption. He's just 1 sample size that just happen to have 12+ while giving you an example. He also gave more explanations than just "12 years" but you clinged to the 12 years and made assumptions.

Quite a few guys do the samething as you do in the slower months so I get that.

I assume that decent QOL goes fairly senior (at least a couple of years depending on BES?) and we’re saying year 1 pilots at NK get decent QOL, but no one seems to acknowledge that part.

How does dropping reserve days work at JB?

After getting off reserve right? Cause your DTZ QOL stuff don't work for reserves. Atleast that's what is being revealed now.

If grid is green Drop one, use PTO or (UTO down to 70.) Trade that day for a more red day. If both are green trade one for the other. That’s the basic rule.

Understood, thanks

Pretty much, but almost all bases are sun one year to a line on the FO side. Subject to change, of course. I’d be willing to bet, even a year 2 NK pilot, has better QOL sooner for previously stated reasons.

I’m also slightly confused, wasn’t all this explained by other NK pilots in other JB forums? Could’ve sworn I remember someone explaining our months ago? I know that house has been beaten countless times on our forum

DTZ and red/green was, but the explanation of how it get to work that way (reserves getting reserved) was never highlighted/mentioned. It's only now, when Blue asked, it was explained. Unless I missed something else. I can tell you now that will be an issue for a good amount of B6 pilots. B6 peeps don't just look at it as serve your time as reserve then enjoy QOL, a lot of more senior guys actually bid reserve. Sometimes, due to this, very junior guys/gals hold a line sooner than later, albeit in the slow months, but they get a break from reserve until they can solidly hold a line.

Hopefully our JNC can come up with some creative way to benefit the majority of B6NK. We got some intricate work ahead of us to do.

One year reserve in the left seat has not been the case at Blue especially if you took first available highest paying seat every time. This has been experience in multiple aircraft and bases by many.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe reserve is much longer at JB on the 320 out of FLL and MCO? I would assume that’s why JB spent time negotiating certain reserve rules?

I think it’s about 2-3 years after upgrade on the NK side (at best) to a line. So something like 5-6 year seniority at the company in total for a junior line? At the moment, our junior CAs get used a ton in the FL bases so they regularly credit 100+ a month. Some super senior guys bud reserve and don’t generally don’t fly at all (RAP dependent).

I think the challenge for both pilot groups is trying to agree on a JCBA when we have no idea what the pairings will be constructed and how reserve pilots would be utilized within their buckets/silos

Just to clarify, if using PTO you can drop as many reserve days as you want? But UTO only to 70, which is just one reserve day, right? Plus any drop can only be done if grid is green?

I think it’ll come down to QOWL. Not knowing how pairings would be constructed and reserve utilized is a challenge when trying to decide how we want a contract to be.

One way to meet in the middle is to maybe have a window for reserve to drop after line holders? Maybe we some sort of no-fly lines where some pilots get to stay home for MMG or 50 hours and not get called at all and no need for reserve (great for slower months and maybe busy months too). Just a few ideas off the top of my head.

I do think there’s a way for all of us to win though. As much as I, and many other NK pilots that I talk to/fly with, are nervous about our QOL in the JCBA, we are hopeful and excited for the merger

Yes that is how it works.

But I would add that swapping reserve days is easy as long as the grid is agreeable. I've had good luck swapping out of less desirable reserve days into more desirable.

Obviously like anything in this business, doesn't always work.

Um NO! A reserve can drop or swap IN SENIORITY ORDER, during the seniority windows, and first come first serve during the FCFS windows. And that is NOT going to change. You're just not getting it. It's not going to happen.

Thank you! Looks like your reserve rules are already better than NK’s. Although i suppose it really depends on how green your grid is.

Everything we thought we knew about JB seniority in MCO/FLL is changing. The company just increased the size of those bases, shifting positions out of the NE. They won't be junior, but they won't be nearly as senior as they were.

In fact not nearly as many from the NE bases chose to go to FL bases, much less than the company wanted. So they will be hiring into the FL bases in my opinion.

And looking backwards at NK's historical reserve times is not very useful. Even as a standalone company, movement at Spirit (especially to and within the left seat) is slowing. This isn't a 50 jet new ULCC anymore. The bigger the pilot group gets, the longer it will take to reach 50% or 40% etc... The size vs growth rate just isn't the same anymore as it was when it was smaller. Your airline, our airlines are maturing, and your airline especially doesn't have the retirements to even partially offset that. All of that means pilots hired today, or upgrading in the next few years, will experience longer reserve times when they transition to the left seat, and even in the right seat in some bases. Reserve should be, and now must be a humane and viable choice for pilots across the entire seniority spectrum. Our union should create as many desirable positions as possible, not allow some to get fat by eating the reserves QOL.

​​​​​​From a flexibility standpoint of dropping or moving days around, yes. But we still need improvement, particularly in long call rules. Specifically escalation from LCR to SCR. Should pay a lot more for escalations, and should provide a hotel room.

​​​​​​Shifting gears,

What do you guys get for PTO hours (outside of vacation accrual) and sick time?

We don’t have PTO time per se, we only accrue sick time, 5 hours/month. But we can use vacation hours to cover drops. Our vacation accrual is better than JB’s though.

We can use Sick time as PTO, they can use Vacation time for the same thing. As far as accruing they get more of one we get more of the other. Is that they correct understanding?

No it’s not. Your vacation time is worth less than JB and you accrue less “sick” time which isn’t as versatile as JB. You can also sell back unused PTO at JB.

Yes it is, according to the Contract comparison guide that our MEC put together. Take a look at the ‘annual vacation days per longevity year’ slide. It clearly shows NK’s is better. For example, JBs acrrual goes to 21 days of vacation at year 10 longevity, NK at year 6, etc.

And 3.5 weeks at 10 years at NK