Airline Pilot Central Forums - Does working at a ULCC mean you deserve less?

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Spirit (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/)

- - Does working at a ULCC mean you deserve less? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/145734-does-working-ulcc-mean-you-deserve-less.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtoL (Post 3744758)

As a former LCC pilot, I take your point. There have been points in history where a particular pilot may be better off at a LCC.

Fact is, those times are the exception and not the norm. Your post raised another point. NK and B6 have guys furloughed from legacy carriers. They didn’t just get up and decide to leave.

No doubt, they’ve done very well for themselves, but the fact is that almost all the movement is from LCC to a legacy.

Should LCC guys get paid legacy rates? Absolutely. But it’s going to take time, and in that time, some opt to just go to a legacy and get the money now. All things being equal, they’ll come out ahead. They’re not any better just because their airline has been around longer.

Also true. In the case of NK or JB, the near term JCBA will close the pay gap for narrowbody flying, but won't make up for widebodies (near term anyway) or the retirement wave. But that wave is just that, a wave. The best seniority list spots over the next 20 years have already been filled by youngsters at UAL/DL, and are being filled now at AA.

Like I've said before, this industry is ALWAYS changing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by panpanpan (Post 3743664)

This is the line of thinking I am hearing from pilots. “We are the highest paid ULCC” as a justification for making less than other airline pilots.

Working at a company that has a low fare business model does not make you worth less as a pilot. You are still responsible for the aircraft and hundreds of lives day in and day out. You had to work just as hard to get an ATP. You can still be violated by the FAA. Why does the company’s business model matter?

You deserve to be paid as much as the Jetblue or Delta pilot who does the same exact job. One could argue that being a Spirit pilot is more difficult with the more densely packed aircraft and higher incidence of passenger issues to deal with. Should you get paid more for that? The argument can be made.

In the upcoming JCBA negotiations great things can be accomplished. Don’t settle for less.

Spirit pilots should make less than Legacy pilots because Spirit pilots ass a whole view themselves as a devalued work group. In 2018, 70% voted to make significantly less than Legacy Pilots. In 2022, 70% again voted to make significantly less than Legacy Pilots. As long as 70% of the group keep saying things like…… “It’s just Spirit!” “The ULCC business model can’t afford it.” “Spirit will never pay what Delta pays!!” “We don’t need to make that money because of our work rules.” Then Spirit management will keep owning you guys at the Negotiating table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3inthegreen (Post 3749420)

I look at it the other way around. Legacy pilots don’t get the quality of life that Spirit pilots get.

you have to ask yourself. Does that extra money make you that much happier or would you rather have quality of life?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3749454)

Don't know many WB peeps, huh?

And...you're the poster child for that guy's post. "Is the extra $ worth it"

Maybe not to you, but that doesn't mean the entire pilot group should be worth less IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60av8tor (Post 3749465)

Don't know many WB peeps, huh?

And...you're the poster child for that guy's post. "Is the extra $ worth it"

Maybe not to you, but that doesn't mean the entire pilot group should be worth less IMO.

I was thinking the same thing.

Counterpoint though is when you have a mangament group that just says no and the NMB puts you on ice for months and you know you won’t get released where do go?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3749454)

This sentiment always makes me laugh, particularly when you occasionally have Ex Spirit pilots at legacies visit these forums and say "Yes, my QOL is much better now, I am making more money and working less" But some of you just put your fingers in your ears and act like they are deluded.

There is no reason ULCC pilots shouldn't have parity with the similar equipment payscale at the legacies and Southwest if we vote in this TA. None whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60av8tor (Post 3749465)

Don't know many WB peeps, huh?

And...you're the poster child for that guy's post. "Is the extra $ worth it"

Maybe not to you, but that doesn't mean the entire pilot group should be worth less IMO.

This is also sort of a byproduct of having such a young pilot group. When you are in your early 20's you think $30K is like $300K. As you age, gain responsibilities, expenses and toys, you later realize that every $$$ can be put to good use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noisecanceller (Post 3749508)

Counterpoint though is when you have a mangament group that just says no and the NMB puts you on ice for months and you know you won’t get released where do go?

You forgot the restraining order too...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noisecanceller (Post 3749508)

I was thinking the same thing.

Counterpoint though is when you have a mangament group that just says no and the NMB puts you on ice for months and you know you won’t get released where do go?

For sure and understood. Not saying there's an easy way to get there from here. Wish there was for everyone.