Amazon A330
08-11-2024 | 05:21 AM
#11
Banned
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08-11-2024 | 05:48 AM
#12
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Pay rates get figured out over time. At least the contract isn't moot. Anyway, just here to speculate and add some juice to Sunny's typical boring posts. Moving on....
I do see the King Troll crawled out of his mother's basement. You can only play video games so long.....
Hey, congrats on the legacy bit.
08-11-2024 | 07:11 AM
#13
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2022
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From: A330, Right
08-11-2024 | 07:41 AM
#14
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: B-737
those pay rates were negotiated well before the last round of major pay raises. My guess is that they will be renegotiated in the next round of bargaining.
08-11-2024 | 08:01 AM
#15
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,618
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Assumption #1: The Alaska-Hawaiian merger is approved next week. I believe it will be.
Assumption #2: Alaska, this fall, then obliges OUT of the Amazon contract. I believe they will.
Who gets them? Won't be ATSG carriers. Sunny? I believe we will. Our partnership is resilient; our relationship continues to grow. We just doubled our Amazon revenue (adding 2/3 more airframes). Historically Sunny is a wide body airline. Our contract has the rates.
If you allow me assumptions 1 and 2, tell me what I'm missing thereafter. I don't like the Amazon trips. I've said as much prior. But I acknowledge that our job security is industry leading because of it. But yeah, I'll take more.
(I'm sorry Rick, I just don't see you guys knelling at the "Amazon Altar". You're not choirboys like us).
Assumption #2: Alaska, this fall, then obliges OUT of the Amazon contract. I believe they will.
Who gets them? Won't be ATSG carriers. Sunny? I believe we will. Our partnership is resilient; our relationship continues to grow. We just doubled our Amazon revenue (adding 2/3 more airframes). Historically Sunny is a wide body airline. Our contract has the rates.
If you allow me assumptions 1 and 2, tell me what I'm missing thereafter. I don't like the Amazon trips. I've said as much prior. But I acknowledge that our job security is industry leading because of it. But yeah, I'll take more.
(I'm sorry Rick, I just don't see you guys knelling at the "Amazon Altar". You're not choirboys like us).
It's possible that if they don't lose their arse right out of the gate they might play for a little while but as soon as Bezos puts the squeeze on them, it will be gone. So maybe it depends on the state of the industry, which airlines and pilot groups need to work at a loss to stay alive (if any).
08-12-2024 | 12:46 AM
#16
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Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 204
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From: Guppy
You talking to me? No, I don't see AS doing a long-term thing with Amazon either. But I also don't see them paying any early-out penalties, so probably stuck with it for the first term.
It's possible that if they don't lose their arse right out of the gate they might play for a little while but as soon as Bezos puts the squeeze on them, it will be gone. So maybe it depends on the state of the industry, which airlines and pilot groups need to work at a loss to stay alive (if any).
It's possible that if they don't lose their arse right out of the gate they might play for a little while but as soon as Bezos puts the squeeze on them, it will be gone. So maybe it depends on the state of the industry, which airlines and pilot groups need to work at a loss to stay alive (if any).
Last edited by N152SY; 08-12-2024 at 01:25 AM.
08-12-2024 | 06:45 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,028
Likes: 246
From: A320 FO
You talking to me? No, I don't see AS doing a long-term thing with Amazon either. But I also don't see them paying any early-out penalties, so probably stuck with it for the first term.
It's possible that if they don't lose their arse right out of the gate they might play for a little while but as soon as Bezos puts the squeeze on them, it will be gone. So maybe it depends on the state of the industry, which airlines and pilot groups need to work at a loss to stay alive (if any).
It's possible that if they don't lose their arse right out of the gate they might play for a little while but as soon as Bezos puts the squeeze on them, it will be gone. So maybe it depends on the state of the industry, which airlines and pilot groups need to work at a loss to stay alive (if any).
In regards to this absolutely wild speculation it would be pretty good 3D Chess if Sunny used Amazon's money to stand up the A330 program then transitioned to passenger service. That should be a long term plan though because as far as I can tell we are quite late in this particular demand cycle so it's probably a poor time to throw additional capacity at already over served routes.
08-12-2024 | 05:15 PM
#18
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From: B-737
I concur. Amazon has shown a strong preference for the DHL model. The airframes are going to be continually moved around in a whipsaw shell game. It's unfortunate since the flying can be decent aside from the 'hot reserve' crews that Amazon mandates. I once hoped that Amazon Airlines (TM) would be the next FedEx but it's pretty clear now that's a pipedream.
In regards to this absolutely wild speculation it would be pretty good 3D Chess if Sunny used Amazon's money to stand up the A330 program then transitioned to passenger service. That should be a long term plan though because as far as I can tell we are quite late in this particular demand cycle so it's probably a poor time to throw additional capacity at already over served routes.
In regards to this absolutely wild speculation it would be pretty good 3D Chess if Sunny used Amazon's money to stand up the A330 program then transitioned to passenger service. That should be a long term plan though because as far as I can tell we are quite late in this particular demand cycle so it's probably a poor time to throw additional capacity at already over served routes.
08-13-2024 | 06:28 PM
#19
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Joined: Dec 2019
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In regards to this absolutely wild speculation it would be pretty good 3D Chess if Sunny used Amazon's money to stand up the A330 program then transitioned to passenger service. That should be a long term plan though because as far as I can tell we are quite late in this particular demand cycle so it's probably a poor time to throw additional capacity at already over served routes.
So much has changed in a year. It's really unbelievable. This industry is just as crazy as ever.
08-20-2024 | 07:05 AM
#20
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Looks like Alaska/Hawaiian merger approved by DOJ, onto DOT. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out with amazon and alaska when they become fully merged in probably 2 years. based off the Virgin merger. I also could very well see one of the ACMI picking up the 330 if alaska doesnt drop it in the future. I personally believe the company doesnt want to spend money to make money in the current envirnoment. So i could see them not wanting the 330 for all the upfront costs. Plus then they will be forced to open a base elsewhere besides MSP. which obviously is not something theyre willing to agree with the union terms and vice versa.
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