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Old 07-20-2020, 10:49 AM   #1  
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Default Fl470

Doing some boredom-induced spying on flightaware...
XOJet nearly always has their Citation X at FL470.. but Mountain Aviation (“foothills”) rarely sends them up there... any known reason??

also, any X drivers who’ve achieved FL510?

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Old 07-20-2020, 07:07 PM   #2  
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Doing some boredom-induced spying on flightaware...
XOJet nearly always has their Citation X at FL470.. but Mountain Aviation (“foothills”) rarely sends them up there... any known reason??

also, any X drivers who’ve achieved FL510?
One doesn't want to pay for the O2 that one pilot has to suck and the other does pay or tells their pilots not to suck it. More current people might explain the requirements for flight above 410, 450 whatever.
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:25 AM   #3  
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One doesn't want to pay for the O2 that one pilot has to suck and the other does pay or tells their pilots not to suck it. More current people might explain the requirements for flight above 410, 450 whatever.
the reg is above fl350 for 135 operators, FL410 for Part 91. At least 1 pilot at the controls must wear secured and sealed an oxygen mask required by this part.

However, I think whether you burn oxygen or more fuel makes it a moot point on the cost. Also, due to COVID some airlines including Delta received relief from the reg up to FL410. I wouldn’t be surprised if the reg changed at some point in the future due to better pressure warning systems, fewer problems with structural failure, and better quick-donning masks.
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:42 AM   #4  
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the reg is above fl350 for 135 operators, FL410 for Part 91. At least 1 pilot at the controls must wear secured and sealed an oxygen mask required by this part.

However, I think whether you burn oxygen or more fuel makes it a moot point on the cost. Also, due to COVID some airlines including Delta received relief from the reg up to FL410. I wouldn’t be surprised if the reg changed at some point in the future due to better pressure warning systems, fewer problems with structural failure, and better quick-donning masks.
The NBAA has had a committee working to change 91.211 for years (.I was on it for a couple of years) and the FAA, specifically the CAMI, is unalterably opposed you any relief save an operator-specific exemption with some hard mitigations on equipage and crew training. A few operators may have obtained an exemption, but it’s an detailed application process, far more than a routine LOA. We provided all kinds of data, but no interest in change. Depressurization above F350 is about a 10E-9 event.
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Old 07-22-2020, 02:47 PM   #5  
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The NBAA has had a committee working to change 91.211 for years (.I was on it for a couple of years) and the FAA, specifically the CAMI, is unalterably opposed you any relief save an operator-specific exemption with some hard mitigations on equipage and crew training. A few operators may have obtained an exemption, but it’s an detailed application process, far more than a routine LOA. We provided all kinds of data, but no interest in change. Depressurization above F350 is about a 10E-9 event.
Understand, but the 121 world got their deviation in less than a month. I understand why the reg is what it is, but for an aircraft that likes to be FL360 to FL430 it’s ridiculous and not very healthy to wear a mask for 3+ hrs of a flight with both pilots at the controls. I can understand if one gets up.
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Old 07-30-2020, 02:45 AM   #6  
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Understand, but the 121 world got their deviation in less than a month. I understand why the reg is what it is, but for an aircraft that likes to be FL360 to FL430 it’s ridiculous and not very healthy to wear a mask for 3+ hrs of a flight with both pilots at the controls. I can understand if one gets up.
The change for part 121 has been in the works for years.
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Old 07-30-2020, 05:43 AM   #7  
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Understand, but the 121 world got their deviation in less than a month. I understand why the reg is what it is, but for an aircraft that likes to be FL360 to FL430 it’s ridiculous and not very healthy to wear a mask for 3+ hrs of a flight with both pilots at the controls. I can understand if one gets up.
Think about wearing a mask for 12-14 hours, as would theoretically be required on a Global 7500 leg. Okay, divide the time in half to account for each pilot. It’s a ridiculous requirement but CAMI won’t bend.
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Old 08-07-2020, 02:53 PM   #8  
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Reminds me of wearing my mask in the military for hours on end...annoying
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:37 PM   #9  
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It's for the fuel savings bonus.
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Old 08-07-2020, 08:14 PM   #10  
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Reminds me of wearing my mask in the military for hours on end...annoying
Gear up, mask off...
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