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TMAAT When you intentionall broke a rule help

Old 05-25-2024, 06:20 PM
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Default TMAAT When you intentionall broke a rule help

I have two scenarios that I might have but one in particular that I'm trying to figure out what rule I broke for this question


In a nutshell


I was flying A to B, with alternate of C. NASTY weather heavy rain, windshear.

Assigned holding for 40 minutes, weather at B was improving while weather was moving to Alternate C. Considered Other alternates that were farther away but were not ideal for fuel or pax services.
When we hit bingo fuel we decided that we would continue holding as weather shut down alternate C.
Declared min fuel, We burned through the alternate and into reserve a hare and landed. (I filed an ASAP just to cover my butt)

I'm being given yes I broke a rule for not diverting and no I did not break a rule because its for planning purposes.

Other than this I do not recall ever being forced to break a rule.

Story 2

Was flying VMC day to a field that was landing west and were expecting a visual approach, there's an approach associated with that runway but it's offset by 30*. This airport is notorious for unstable approaches to this runway.
Noticed that we had a charted visual in our database, and had the chart for it in our IPAD, but the opsepcs didn't have us approved for it yet. So, we felt that in the name of being safe, flying a stable approach with coded lateral guidance, we chose to fly this charted visual despite it not being "approved".


Obviously, I would not continue to do something like this, but if I have available resources that will help me despite not receiving approval for it, why wouldn't I use it.
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Old 05-26-2024, 01:37 PM
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Before you burned that deep into reserves you should have been considering airports D-X. Was there not another airport anywhere within range with a suitable runway? Your alternate airport C is a paperwork airport. Often the flight planned alternate is not the best choice.
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Old 05-26-2024, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NopeNoVNAV
I have two scenarios that I might have but one in particular that I'm trying to figure out what rule I broke for this question


In a nutshell


I was flying A to B, with alternate of C. NASTY weather heavy rain, windshear.

Assigned holding for 40 minutes, weather at B was improving while weather was moving to Alternate C. Considered Other alternates that were farther away but were not ideal for fuel or pax services.
When we hit bingo fuel we decided that we would continue holding as weather shut down alternate C.
Declared min fuel, We burned through the alternate and into reserve a hare and landed. (I filed an ASAP just to cover my butt)

I'm being given yes I broke a rule for not diverting and no I did not break a rule because its for planning purposes.

Other than this I do not recall ever being forced to break a rule.

Story 2

Was flying VMC day to a field that was landing west and were expecting a visual approach, there's an approach associated with that runway but it's offset by 30*. This airport is notorious for unstable approaches to this runway.
Noticed that we had a charted visual in our database, and had the chart for it in our IPAD, but the opsepcs didn't have us approved for it yet. So, we felt that in the name of being safe, flying a stable approach with coded lateral guidance, we chose to fly this charted visual despite it not being "approved".


Obviously, I would not continue to do something like this, but if I have available resources that will help me despite not receiving approval for it, why wouldn't I use it.

Are you sure the answer isn’t “nothing comes to mind, I’m deliberate in following rules and it would be difficult to come up with a specific instance?”
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Old 05-26-2024, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
Before you burned that deep into reserves you should have been considering airports D-X. Was there not another airport anywhere within range with a suitable runway? Your alternate airport C is a paperwork airport. Often the flight planned alternate is not the best choice.
We considered those. The closest had closed towers and didn't have services on the ramp we would have parked at. The best suitable would have been farther away and would have burned all of that fuel we had to hold with plus the fuel for the first alternate.

The weather was improving at B and had arrivals coming in about halfway through our wait, if we absolutely had to, could have declared an emergency and got in. Frankly, had we gathered all that info before we even touched a hold, we probably would have went direct. But we didn't.
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Old 05-26-2024, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Texasfly
Are you sure the answer isn’t “nothing comes to mind, I’m deliberate in following rules and it would be difficult to come up with a specific instance?”
That's a cop out, or you do not have enough experience to have a story for that question.

The rules are the rules yes, but often they do not cover every situation and in good pilot judgement sometimes you need to deviate in order to safely put the airplane where it needs to go. The airlines know this is how it is and they want to know if you have sound decision making and know when the time to break a rule is and how to mitigate it safely.
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Old 05-27-2024, 11:04 AM
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It's not a cop-out. The best answer is that one would never intentionally violate a regulation or company policy. The interiewer is not a priest, and the interviewee is not there for confession.

To the original poster; how many forums will you spam with with this same question?
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Old 05-27-2024, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ps2sunvalley
That's a cop out, or you do not have enough experience to have a story for that question.

The rules are the rules yes, but often they do not cover every situation and in good pilot judgement sometimes you need to deviate in order to safely put the airplane where it needs to go. The airlines know this is how it is and they want to know if you have sound decision making and know when the time to break a rule is and how to mitigate it safely.
I guess my advice would be, if you’re going to use experience as a qualifier for answering this question. Maybe try finding a story that starts with “I had to use PIC authority to prevent an unsafe situation.” And not, “I know we weren’t approved for it, but I did it anyway” “because, you know they might approve it soon”.
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Old 06-01-2024, 04:13 AM
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The original poster's question didn't limit the answer to aviation related. I'm sure everyone has sped, ran a red light, or various other things from our day to day lives. The "I don't brak the rules answer" may be the thing that gets you weeded out of advancing.
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Old 06-01-2024, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by EMAW
The original poster's question didn't limit the answer to aviation related. I'm sure everyone has sped, ran a red light, or various other things from our day to day lives. The "I don't brak the rules answer" may be the thing that gets you weeded out of advancing.
That would be a good way to safely field the ""Tell me about a time you broke a rule" question.

But still be prepared for the "Tell me about a time you broke a rule in aviation" question.
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Old 06-01-2024, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by EMAW
The original poster's question didn't limit the answer to aviation related. I'm sure everyone has sped, ran a red light, or various other things from our day to day lives. The "I don't brak the rules answer" may be the thing that gets you weeded out of advancing.
When I was a Naval Aviator one time we were conducting a mock-dogfight and we had set the deck at 10,000' MSL. I had gotten on the "6" of the boogie and I was following him to get a lock and he dived for the ground. I think he knew that I "had him" and he was running scared, but 10,000 was technically the deck. He went under, so did I. I saw no danger, I "took the shot".
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