william273

i know you guys have enroute and approach charts among others but seeing how everything is all electronic these days and ATC will vector you in for the approach and landing which is different from the actual approach charts i'm wondering how often you actually "use" the enroute and approach charts?

i'm talking paper charts here. everything is all laid out in the MFDs so i'm wondering if you use the charts at all.

well i'm sure you do use them but are they the primary ones or do you mainly depend on the information in the MFDs?

thanks guys,

william

acl65pilot

Every day. Also the NOTAMS. Lots of missed approach procedures are modified and need to be rebuilt in the box. The FMC is a great tool, but it can kick your but if you do not incorporate it in to everything else.
NYC is horrible about never updating approach charts with the FDC notams.

It ATL we have CDA (Constant Decent Angle) Arrivals and approaches that we try out as well. On the redeyes we will literally go from cruise to the ground/FAF with out touching the power. The is all on Approach charts and STAR's so yes, we use them.

III Corps

there can be and sometimes are differences between the database and the charts and for some reason i seem to remember a DFW arrival where one of the fixes was coded incorrectly. the crew relied on the database and got tagged by the FAA.

trust but verify...

acl65pilot

Yes, this is true, and then verify by the NOTAMS. We had a lot of way points in the Caribbean that were wrong in the database a few months ago. We had to manually put in the Lat/Longs. It the WATRS and Blue routes this could do more than just get you violated.

250 or point 65

There is a huge difference between using technology and relying on technology.

We use paper charts every day because if S hits the Fan, you better be ready to go back to the old school way of doing things. Even if it doesn't, you better be ready to fly that missed at 200ish knots! Even if you're letting the plane fly the missed, you have to verify everything the computer is doing is correct.

william273

thanks very much for the replies! i sort of figured the same thing but wasn't sure.
i do alot if flight simming and always enjoy hearing how things REALLY work.

if you ever get time check out some of my landings on "youtube". just do a search for "william273". if ya see them leave a comment!

thanks again,

william

III Corps

the amazing thing is how often most procedures are based on local knowledge.. you go into KABC enough and you learn the 'pace' they operate at. And ATL does not operate like ORD or LGA or LAX. You get to where you can feel what is happening and you know you are being set up for a slam-dunk or that they have forgotten you and a hard turn is coming up for the intercept. It happens.

And nothing is based more on local knowledge than when trying to taxi from/to a runway. The clearances usually come at bullet speed, and can be long and complicated, some more so than others.. for example, go to http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0810/05461AD.PDF

You just landed on 27L and you are clearing at taxiway SG.. now ground clears you to your terminal ALPHA on the north side. You listened to the ATIS but not that closely because it was almost 2 minutes long with all the closures. Taxiway SF is closed just south of the EAST BRIDGE. To add to the fun, it is night and raining.

Then ground clears you to your ramp noting that RA is closed between SF and SC and RB is closed between TERM C and TERM B. Transition to WB and enter the ramp via WD.

What fun.. and remember the greatest loss of life in airline ops came from a ground accident.

william273

oh man, i can imagine what airport ops must be like in conditions like that. might make me look for another job.