Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Technical
Yes, another crossing restriction question >

Yes, another crossing restriction question

Notices
Technical Technical aspects of flying

Yes, another crossing restriction question

Old 11-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
2StgTurbine's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,241
Default Yes, another crossing restriction question

So center gave us a crossing restriction and the other pilot started going down. Center then gives us a handoff and I tell the next controller, “Center, 1234 passing FL210 to cross ABC VOR at FL180.” The controller then says, “1234, cross DEF VOR (the next VOR in the arrival) at 14,000.” The other pilot then sets 14,000 in the autopilot and tells me since the new controller didn’t say to cross ABC at FL180 like the last guy, then we no longer had to worry about it.

I could tell that we were going to make the first assigned crossing restriction and I really didn’t want to start something with this guy, but I have never heard of that before. Is there a FAR or something in the AIM saying that a new controller must reissue clearances assigned by a previous controller?
2StgTurbine is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:17 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
USMCFLYR's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,835
Default

I asked a fellow I work with this question (who is both an experienced pilot and a former controller) and his **initial** thought was the same as the guy you flew with (if the controller did not restate it then it does not apply), but cautioned that he wouldn't bet his life on it
In any case - he said he was going to do some research on it and see if he could find my a reference/answer. I'll pass it along if he follows through. Until then - we have an awful lot of experience in both respects here on the forum and I will bet there will be a good discussion born of this question. Thanks for bringing it up!

USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:28 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
captain152's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,258
Default

I'd be interested to hear the replies on this one.

Personally, I would just worry about the newest crossing restriction. Just like a lower or higher altitude clearance on the way down or up from a previous clearance.

Just my .02
captain152 is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:33 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
dustrpilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: AT802
Posts: 241
Default

All else fails, ask the controller if he/ she still wants the previous crossing. It's free to ask.
dustrpilot is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:38 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
rightside02's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Airbus 320 Right Seat
Posts: 1,440
Default

I would have asked the new controller, both sides of the fence make mistakes all the time...
rightside02 is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:01 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
USMCFLYR's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,835
Default

Originally Posted by dustrpilot View Post
All else fails, ask the controller if he/ she still wants the previous crossing. It's free to ask.
Originally Posted by rightside02 View Post
I would have asked the new controller, both sides of the fence make mistakes all the time...
Yes to both these responses and the same was actually my co-worker's first response too; but without getting in deep into a scenario based question - what say the rules? Let's talk *technical* for a second.

USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:11 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 342
Default

FAAH 7110.65U, para. 4-2-5 b. When route or altitude in a previously issued
clearance is amended, restate all applicable altitude restrictions.


In your example, the new controller's instructions erased the previous clearance. If he needed you at ABC at FL180 and DEF at 14000, he should have stated both altitudes.
EasternATC is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:17 PM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
2StgTurbine's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,241
Default

Originally Posted by EasternATC View Post
FAAH 7110.65U, para. 4-2-5 b. When route or altitude in a previously issued
clearance is amended, restate all applicable altitude restrictions.


In your example, the new controller's instructions erased the previous clearance. If he needed you at ABC at FL180 and DEF at 14000, he should have stated both altitudes.
Thanks for the reference too.
2StgTurbine is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:31 PM
  #9  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,134
Default

Originally Posted by EasternATC View Post
FAAH 7110.65U, para. 4-2-5 b. When route or altitude in a previously issued
clearance is amended, restate all applicable altitude restrictions.


In your example, the new controller's instructions erased the previous clearance. If he needed you at ABC at FL180 and DEF at 14000, he should have stated both altitudes.
Yep. But be careful in Canada when flying a STAR, that is NOT the case. Often the center controller will give you a clearance for a fix on the arrival, but not a "descend via the arrival clearance". When being handed off to approach (Terminal), they'll usually give you the next/subsequent crossings. That/those clearance(s) does not allow one to descend below a previously issued restriction.
xjtguy is offline  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:47 PM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Yazzoo's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: E175, Left
Posts: 271
Default

Your clearance got amended, and you follow the most recent one. In this case, you are no longer expected to cross ABC at FL180, and are instead expected to now cross DEF at 14,000.
Yazzoo is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RVSM Certified
Flight Schools and Training
22
02-27-2009 12:04 PM
USMCFLYR
Military
16
08-28-2008 09:15 PM
USMCFLYR
Hangar Talk
3
08-23-2008 08:37 PM
cargo hopeful
Cargo
21
03-05-2006 06:12 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices