"Courtesy" ATC Calls
02-09-2013, 08:19 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by rvrabel2002
In 12 years as a CFI, I must say I've never heard of an ATC courtesy call as being a violation of the FARs. Ask your instructor if (s)he can give you the FAR number that references this so-called reg. I'm willing to bet (s)he can't. Most likely, this is just the instructor's pet peeve, so (s)he's trying to discourage your class from doing something that (s)he personally finds annoying.
Regarding courtesy calls, just use your best judgment as PIC. If you're making a standard ATC request (ie. on the ramp, ready to taxi for departure to the practice area), I'd say go ahead and make your full call sans courtesy call. If, however, you have some kind of unique situation or complicated request, a courtesy call might be nice to make sure the controller's workload allows him/her to accommodate you. As you gain flight experience, you'll get a feel for what works and what doesn't.
As a favor, please do report back if your instructor is able to show the existence of such a "courtesy call" regulation.
Looking for a pilot job? Check out my Facebook Page.
Regarding courtesy calls, just use your best judgment as PIC. If you're making a standard ATC request (ie. on the ramp, ready to taxi for departure to the practice area), I'd say go ahead and make your full call sans courtesy call. If, however, you have some kind of unique situation or complicated request, a courtesy call might be nice to make sure the controller's workload allows him/her to accommodate you. As you gain flight experience, you'll get a feel for what works and what doesn't.
As a favor, please do report back if your instructor is able to show the existence of such a "courtesy call" regulation.
Looking for a pilot job? Check out my Facebook Page.
The only thing I'll add is to not to be intimidated. It's a balance but sometimes newer pilots try to stay "too much out of the way". You are a part of the ATC system as much as that UAL 777. If you're circling the VFR reporting point and the weather is closing down on you, and you have nowhere else to go...it might not be the right time to be timid on the radio
Radio Comms is one of the harder things to master. The basics are easy, but only years of practice will get you to be "fluent." When a newb keys up on the radio everybody on the frequency can immediatelly tell before he's done saying his call sign that he's a newb, much like native speakers KNOW when someone else is not a native speaker of a language...they are saying all the same words, but yet everybody still knows. Listen to as much ATC comms as possible. When you plan your X-ctry, don't only choose the lonely Class E airports in the middle of nowhere. The only way to get good at talking on the radio is to do it A LOT.
"with-you" has become one of my pet-peeves also. Not because people use it, but because it bothers some people SOO much. Yes...i'm a "with-you" guy. I'm also a "ga'day" guy. I once had an FO criticize me for my "with-you". I asked him why? He gave me the usual about taking up airwave space, who else would we be with, not in the p/c glossary, etc. His very next radio call was "Roger, We're IMC, we got 'um in the box". So what letter do I find "we got 'um in the box" filed under in the P/C Glossary? Why do people even say that, there is no such a thing as "TCAS seperation". We called a truce after 2 legs of every "Q, P, 3, 5, 9, 0, ten-thousand, saying 350 instead of FL350, not saying our call sign, not checking out of altitudes, every frequency read-back (NOBODY reads back frequencies properly all the time), etc." was pointed out.
Roger-Wilco, Over & Out!
02-19-2013, 08:32 PM
#23
Inverted
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: CL65 CA
Posts: 536
I thought a courtesy call was when on an uncontrolled ramp and you'll be flying somewhere that requires a release time, "Fight 123 pushing gate 28" lets the controller know you'll be taxiing shortly so they can go ahead and call TMU for a T/O time fore you.
02-20-2013, 12:10 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Holding over Macho Grande
Posts: 602
Originally Posted by jmcmanna
If you call once or twice and we don't answer, it's because we're busy. We don't just talk on the radio; sometimes talking to the center or tower takes a minute. You hear dead air, but we might be relaying important information on the landline.
Also, if you were handed off from another controller (say, if you're IFR), and I don't get to you right away, be patient and stop blocking the frequency. I never understand when pilots keep trying to check in 40 miles from the airport and keep blocking the frequency as I am trying to turn someone onto the localizer or something. We see you....if it's busy and you don't get the chance to check in, I will reach out to you when I need you to do something.
Also, if you were handed off from another controller (say, if you're IFR), and I don't get to you right away, be patient and stop blocking the frequency. I never understand when pilots keep trying to check in 40 miles from the airport and keep blocking the frequency as I am trying to turn someone onto the localizer or something. We see you....if it's busy and you don't get the chance to check in, I will reach out to you when I need you to do something.
I know that's not a concern for a controller, but it is to a pilot with his boss looking over his shoulder. Some bosses don't care who is at fault, the pilot will get the heat...and sometime the expense, too.
Just sayin'...
03-22-2013, 12:10 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: B787. Left seat.
Posts: 270
This annoys me.
"Flight 123 request"
"Flight 123, go ahead"
"Flight 123 request FL 350, if available".
Why not just say "Flight 123 request FL 350"
Less chat and if it is not available you won't get it.
"Flight 123 request"
"Flight 123, go ahead"
"Flight 123 request FL 350, if available".
Why not just say "Flight 123 request FL 350"
Less chat and if it is not available you won't get it.
03-22-2013, 12:47 PM
#26
Working weekends
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by EYBusdriver
This annoys me.
"Flight 123 request"
"Flight 123, go ahead"
"Flight 123 request FL 350, if available".
Why not just say "Flight 123 request FL 350"
Less chat and if it is not available you won't get it.
"Flight 123 request"
"Flight 123, go ahead"
"Flight 123 request FL 350, if available".
Why not just say "Flight 123 request FL 350"
Less chat and if it is not available you won't get it.
03-22-2013, 03:21 PM
#27
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD-11, old man
Posts: 2,198
Originally Posted by EYBusdriver
This annoys me.
"Flight 123 request"
"Flight 123, go ahead"
"Flight 123 request FL 350, if available".
Why not just say "Flight 123 request FL 350"
Less chat and if it is not available you won't get it.
"Flight 123 request"
"Flight 123, go ahead"
"Flight 123 request FL 350, if available".
Why not just say "Flight 123 request FL 350"
Less chat and if it is not available you won't get it.
fbh
03-22-2013, 10:43 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: N90-EWR
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by UnderOveur
Understood. But 10 miles to the airspace happens REAL quick at 120+ knots of GS, and some pilots are held responsible for every extra minute of hobbs time that is seen as unnecessary. At $2k/hr for the plane, a five minute delay doing a lazy 360 waiting for ATC acknowledgement/clearance is $166, which can buy a lot of gas. It all adds up, believe that.
I know that's not a concern for a controller, but it is to a pilot with his boss looking over his shoulder. Some bosses don't care who is at fault, the pilot will get the heat...and sometime the expense, too.
Just sayin'...
I know that's not a concern for a controller, but it is to a pilot with his boss looking over his shoulder. Some bosses don't care who is at fault, the pilot will get the heat...and sometime the expense, too.
Just sayin'...
You're not saving any $$ on gas by me acknowledging your initial check in. if anything....if you **** me off enough with the "blocked" stuff you may end up spending extra $$ on gas as I make you now be the loser of any potential tiebreaker situation.
03-24-2013, 06:45 PM
#30
ATC retired/121 hired
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: 121 FO / glider for fun
Posts: 164
You're not saving any $$ on gas by me acknowledging your initial check in. if anything....if you **** me off enough with the "blocked" stuff you may end up spending extra $$ on gas as I make you now be the loser of any potential tiebreaker situation. [/QUOTE]
Been there done that, just because I don't have the time to wait for the drawn out readback. But, once in a while I get so irritated that I'm motivated to make you first just to get you out of my airspace and off the frequency. Most times, however, if you act like you know what's going on, turn, climb or decend when it's asked for rather that waiting 5 miles, I'm more apt to trust you in a situation that may be tight. That how you become #1.
[/QUOTE]Been there done that, just because I don't have the time to wait for the drawn out readback. But, once in a while I get so irritated that I'm motivated to make you first just to get you out of my airspace and off the frequency. Most times, however, if you act like you know what's going on, turn, climb or decend when it's asked for rather that waiting 5 miles, I'm more apt to trust you in a situation that may be tight. That how you become #1.
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