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"Speed restrictions removed"

Old 11-29-2015, 06:59 PM
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Default "Speed restrictions removed"

Was talking about this with a few captains I've been flying with regarding the interpretation of the phrase by ATC "speed restrictions removed" on departure. Particularly pertaining to outside of the US, for example departing out of HKG. Most SIDs will have speed restriction at a few waypoints (max 220kts until waypoint X, max 240kts until waypoint Y) and also a note on the plan view "max speed 250kias below 10,000."

My question is, if you're flying a heavy aircraft that requires, say, 265kts for a clean maneuvering speed and ATC tells you that "speed restrictions are removed" can you now
1-cancel any waypoint speed restrictions along the SID (220 to X, 240 to Y) but still limited to 250kts
2-accelerate above 250kts as required to clean up and climb
3-disregard any speed restrictions and accelerate to a cruise climb speed, say 280-320kts

I know in some places the terms "high-speed climb approved" and "speed restrictions removed" are used interchangeably, in others they have different meanings. People I've flown with seem to interpret this phraseology different, figured I'd see what everyone's take on it was.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:36 PM
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Good question. Wondered this myself. If I'm on a SID and that phrase is uttered by ATC, that to me means that the speed restrictions on the SID are no longer applicable- and I have yet to have a controller yell at me for exceeding the SID speed limits. However, I usually ask to exceed 250K below 10,000, even if they previously told me "speed restrictions removed" or "no speed restrictions."

I'd also want to know where it is written. I suspect we'll get answers like mine above, but what I would like to find the place to find such information for Vietnam, Hong Kong, Beijing, etc., etc., because the phrase may have different meetings in different countries.
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sandrich View Post
Was talking about this with a few captains I've been flying with regarding the interpretation of the phrase by ATC "speed restrictions removed" on departure. Particularly pertaining to outside of the US, for example departing out of HKG. Most SIDs will have speed restriction at a few waypoints (max 220kts until waypoint X, max 240kts until waypoint Y) and also a note on the plan view "max speed 250kias below 10,000."

My question is, if you're flying a heavy aircraft that requires, say, 265kts for a clean maneuvering speed and ATC tells you that "speed restrictions are removed" can you now
1-cancel any waypoint speed restrictions along the SID (220 to X, 240 to Y) but still limited to 250kts
2-accelerate above 250kts as required to clean up and climb
3-disregard any speed restrictions and accelerate to a cruise climb speed, say 280-320kts

I know in some places the terms "high-speed climb approved" and "speed restrictions removed" are used interchangeably, in others they have different meanings. People I've flown with seem to interpret this phraseology different, figured I'd see what everyone's take on it was.
In the US, CFR 91.117 allows you to fly faster than 250 below 10K if your clean maneuvering is higher than 250. There is no requirement to request this.


Most countries outside the US do not have this exception. You must always ask for a higher speed than 250 below 10K if you require it or you must remain appropriately configured to stay at or below 250. Where it is written is in the individual country rules and regs. Taiwan (for example) will let you exceed 250 below 10K for performance but you are required to advise ATC as soon as possible.


I think the answer to your question is answer #1. "Speed restrictions removed" applies to the specific SID airspeed restrictions (in my opinion). It's not a carte blanche clearance to exceed the normal country restrictions, so you must still remain at 250 or below until you reach 10,000 (or above 10,000 if you're in Japan).


If I need higher than 250 outside the US, I ask for the specific speed. The other phraseology like "high speed approved" usually has been used in the context of approving a higher clean speed. Being specific takes any guesswork out of the equation.
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:11 AM
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All good points. For what it's worth, I was once departing out of Hong Kong, we were heavy, and needed about 265 to clean up. We asked for "high speed climb" and they replied with "speed restrictions removed, speed at your discretion." It seems there's really no cut and dry answer. I know in HKG they want you to speed up as fast as possible and get out of their airspace, so we usually hear no grief from them about doing 300+ by 6000'. I guess the right answer would be to play it safe, and ask for approval regardless of what they tell you.
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:03 AM
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Any speed restriction variation from the ICAO standard is in the country specific AIP. If you Google search HK AIP, you can view their AIP and the airspeed rules are in the Enroute section, EN1.5 for VHHH.

HK gives the ATC controllers the authority to cancel the 250 below 10,000 restriction. In the U.S., ATC cannot cancel the restriction, the FAR mentioned allows acceleration to clean maneuvering for performance, but that is the limit.

My understanding is if HK cancels the speed restriction of 250 below 10,000, then you can accelerate per your discretion.
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Old 12-03-2015, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
In the US, CFR 91.117 allows you to fly faster than 250 below 10K if your clean maneuvering is higher than 250. There is no requirement to request this.
You might want to review the FAA legal interpretations before you bet your license on that statement.

Jim
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Old 12-03-2015, 05:20 AM
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Something else to consider: a 15 lbs bird impacting an aircraft doing 280 kts exerts a force of 32+ tonnes. More than the weight of a Sherman tank. Boeing recommends speeds below 250K below 10,000' if operationally possible.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by acebaxter View Post
You might want to review the FAA legal interpretations before you bet your license on that statement.

Jim
If you have some actual link or information that will set me straight, then how about posting it? We're all here to learn and exchange info.
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Old 12-03-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sandrich View Post
All good points. For what it's worth, I was once departing out of Hong Kong, we were heavy, and needed about 265 to clean up. We asked for "high speed climb" and they replied with "speed restrictions removed, speed at your discretion." It seems there's really no cut and dry answer. I know in HKG they want you to speed up as fast as possible and get out of their airspace, so we usually hear no grief from them about doing 300+ by 6000'. I guess the right answer would be to play it safe, and ask for approval regardless of what they tell you.
I'm with you, why not advise?

Have received SOCAL 280kt climb clearances well below 10'000 on occasion and find that a little puzzling.
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Old 12-03-2015, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cougar View Post
Any speed restriction variation from the ICAO standard is in the country specific AIP. If you Google search HK AIP, you can view their AIP and the airspeed rules are in the Enroute section, EN1.5 for VHHH.

Good advice. Didn't know that this was available.
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