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-   -   Doubling the MRJ order??? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/trans-states-airlines/111347-doubling-mrj-order.html)

msprj2 02-25-2018 03:22 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2536515)
Not if you are providing that feed yourself. You also might look at the total number of passengers fed to the mainline. If we allow aircraft with these capabilities they are no longer providing feed, they are replaning mainline lift. Thankfully mainline scope also contains restrictions on both distance and hub to hub flights.
I can assure you if Delta gets the ability to outsource the MRJ-90 we can kiss the 717’s goodbye when the leases are up.

Way off l think.
The CS100 and 300 will replace the 717. The MRJ 70 and 90 would replace the CRJ700 and 900 along with the EMB 170 and
175.
If you could exchange Wt for number of MRJ’s. Seems like a compromise could be made.
Right now around 325 69-76 seaters. Why not try to reduce that number to around 200 Or so. I seriously doubt Mgt would
Go for it though.

FlyingKat 02-25-2018 03:34 AM


Originally Posted by MantisToboggan (Post 2535841)
So you're saying mainline is gonna vote to relax scope? With a serious face?


What is past is prologue. It has happened before and will likely happen again. The guys with the MBAs have been punking mainline pilot groups for years on scope. If management wants it bad enough, they will give mainline enough carrots to make it happen. Then you will be running around bragging we got xxx for scope.

sailingfun 02-25-2018 05:41 AM


Originally Posted by msprj2 (Post 2536554)
Way off l think.
The CS100 and 300 will replace the 717. The MRJ 70 and 90 would replace the CRJ700 and 900 along with the EMB 170 and
175.
If you could exchange Wt for number of MRJ’s. Seems like a compromise could be made.
Right now around 325 69-76 seaters. Why not try to reduce that number to around 200 Or so. I seriously doubt Mgt would
Go for it though.

The current CS orders are not intended as 717 replacement. They are planned for additional migration of flying from the regionals to the mainline and growth. Fleet plan has all CS’s delivered well before they start parking 717’s.

Purpleanga 02-25-2018 08:54 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2535846)
Can you provide specific contracts were pilots received raises for scope concessions? In most contracts scope is settled after pay.

You must be kidding. Management has played you guys like a fiddle. As I said before, the aircraft are not available yet, even the 175v2 that’s for 2020. When they are you can bet management will get their way.

Purpleanga 02-25-2018 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2536515)
Not if you are providing that feed yourself. You also might look at the total number of passengers fed to the mainline. If we allow aircraft with these capabilities they are no longer providing feed, they are replaning mainline lift. Thankfully mainline scope also contains restrictions on both distance and hub to hub flights.
I can assure you if Delta gets the ability to outsource the MRJ-90 we can kiss the 717’s goodbye when the leases are up.

The MRJ is not a 717 replacement. It’s a ERJ/CRJ replacement. That’s what some here are trying to tell you. It’s makes more sense to reduce RJ feed by adding bigger RJs so there’s less total regional feed. There’s no chance Delta will take that in house. Mostly because it doesn’t make sense financially to take on this massive feed when the regional can do it for much less. Also good luck getting mainline guys to fly 4,5 legs a day again.

sailingfun 02-26-2018 07:09 AM


Originally Posted by Purpleanga (Post 2536782)
The MRJ is not a 717 replacement. It’s a ERJ/CRJ replacement. That’s what some here are trying to tell you. It’s makes more sense to reduce RJ feed by adding bigger RJs so there’s less total regional feed. There’s no chance Delta will take that in house. Mostly because it doesn’t make sense financially to take on this massive feed when the regional can do it for much less. Also good luck getting mainline guys to fly 4,5 legs a day again.

What you fail to understand is we have lived the evolution of scope. The E175-2/MRJ absolutely would work as a 717 replacement. It’s close enough and actually has better range. It would not be a 175 replacement. Delta plans a 30 year life cycle on airframes. They are a long way from needing replacement.
In your cost statement you make my point. At the cost it could be flown at the regionals the majors would not take on a 100 to 120 seat airframe. The CEO of UAL has said exactly that and backed it up by canceling their small aircraft order.
We fly 4 and 5 leg days now at Delta.

sailingfun 02-26-2018 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by Purpleanga (Post 2536774)
You must be kidding. Management has played you guys like a fiddle. As I said before, the aircraft are not available yet, even the 175v2 that’s for 2020. When they are you can bet management will get their way.

I guess you missed the entire scope debate in the last contract cycle. Airlines were planning on the E190 at the regionals and both the MRJ and E175-2 were supposed to be ready much early. Several regionals had the 190’s on order and every expert said the unions would cave and allow them. Did not happen. We won’t sell your future. You should be thankful!
I guess in answer to the other question you can’t provide a single example.

WildBlue025 02-26-2018 08:58 AM

This thread blows.

Purpleanga 02-26-2018 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2537444)
What you fail to understand is we have lived the evolution of scope. The E175-2/MRJ absolutely would work as a 717 replacement. It’s close enough and actually has better range. It would not be a 175 replacement. Delta plans a 30 year life cycle on airframes. They are a long way from needing replacement.
In your cost statement you make my point. At the cost it could be flown at the regionals the majors would not take on a 100 to 120 seat airframe. The CEO of UAL has said exactly that and backed it up by canceling their small aircraft order.
We fly 4 and 5 leg days now at Delta.

In the end all regional feed is mainline replacement. But the MRJ is not a true mainline AC replacement. It will only have 75 to 80 seats. It’s just a few thousand pounds heavier than a 175. It will be used to replace 50 seaters and older CRJ7/9s. That’s what you need. Less regional aircraft.

Purpleanga 02-26-2018 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2537449)
I guess you missed the entire scope debate in the last contract cycle. Airlines were planning on the E190 at the regionals and both the MRJ and E175-2 were supposed to be ready much early. Several regionals had the 190’s on order and every expert said the unions would cave and allow them. Did not happen. We won’t sell your future. You should be thankful!
I guess in answer to the other question you can’t provide a single example.

The future has already been sold. All Legacy’s have tons of RJs flying for them. Small and big.


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