Metering

I heard there is a piece of paper floating around the training center that mentions doubling the MRJ order!

I know.. I am just as shocked as the rest of you. No way the major airlines are going to give up scope like that!

ALTsel

I highly doubt that... Do you have said piece of paper???

sailingfun

You can triple the order. You will however have to become independent like Independence Air. You will also have to do that if you take delivery of even one airframe unless you go with the downsized version coming later if they even build it.

FlyingKat

Well if its true it could have something to do with United management's confidence that they will be getting scope relief in this new contract. We'll see.....

minimwage4

It doesn’t matter. Nobody will sign on anything unless the airplanes are certified and ready to go. That won’t be for another 2 years. Not to mention scope. Only other way is to start their own airline and code share but that would be like Gojet x 1000.

m20cmark21

This has been brought up here and elsewhere too many times to count. Does the MRJ90 (configured with 88 or 92 economy seats as one of the 3 configurations) exceed the Scope Clauses for UA and AA for both total seats and weight (MATOW), yes. Keep in mind that this statement applies in an ALL ECONOMY SEATING configuration. NO Legacy carrier wants an ALL ECONOMY CONFIGURATION. They all want 2 or maybe even (a first for Regional) 3 classes of seats (economy, economy-plus/business, first). Check out the MRJ site itself, it even shows a 2-class configuration with First and Economy and 72 (wait, that's under the 76-seat scope) seats.

World-class Design

Now, you might say: bu-bu-but it's STILL scoped out on MATOW, right? Well... I'm not a rocket surgeon, but going from 92 seats to 72 leaves a lot of "wiggle room" on that number, and last I checked the MATOW was only over scope by approximately 1,200-pounds. Twenty adults weigh a little more than that, and it wouldn't be too difficult for our friends at the FAA to certify the MRJ90 with a maximum passenger limitation of 76, which would certainly put the MATOW below the required scope.

Lastly, yes, on the UA side (and possibly AA side) the total 76-seat airframes are at the maximum. But this accounts for some VERY tired CRJ700s, and EMB170s that could certainly take a much needed retirement breather out in the warm desert air. How do you think MESA is adding 175s?

Mitsubishi isn't stupid. They wouldn't create an aircraft that no one could buy. Yes, they have been plagued by problems, and as with any clean-sheet design there are unforeseeable issues. I would say that the engines, steel parts (with unfortunately falsified strength data from the Japanese supplier), wing spars, and other issues are much more pertinent for them to figure out other than "scope." For these design reasons we may never see this airplane, but scope isn't one of them. Considering the Engineering and Certification brainpower and talent that Mitsubishi has pulled in from Boeing and other companies with proven aircraft certification track records I wouldn't be surprised to see the MRJ out there flying sometime before 2022.

Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation News

http://www.flythemrj.com/news/date/i...0project_e.pdf

sailingfun

Mitsubishi has stated they can’t get the MRJ90 below the required weight to meet the scope clauses. If they could they would have announced it that same day and it would be a big seller!

m20cmark21

Reference?

sailingfun

Virtually every article about the jet. Not one has ever suggested they could meet the weight. If they could they would be screaming it from the rooftops! Keep the n mind the 87,300 lb version discussed has a very short range. Note the weight in this article. The LR version is 94,000 lbs.

Most U.S. airlines’ pilot contracts have scope clauses that limit outsourcing of flying on aircraft exceeding 76 seats and a maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) of more than 86,000 lb. The MRJ can be configured with up to 90 seats, and its MTOW exceeds the cutoff. Yamagami said the seat-count restriction can be met by configuring the MRJ90 with two classes of service, but the MTOW restriction is a more difficult nut to crack.

“If the current 86,000-lb. MTOW restriction remains, our aircraft does not have enough range,” he said. “If we fill the aircraft with passengers, we cannot fill enough fuel for maximum range.” In its longest-range derivative, the MRJ has a 2,000 nm range and an MTOW just north of 90,000 lb.

m20cmark21

Good rebuttal, and I understand what you are saying. I just wouldn't be surprised, considering the amount of money involved, if they figure out a way to make the MRJ90 comply with scope limits. Anything is possible. I suppose only time will tell.

For the record, Embraer's website lists the MTOW of the (currently flying in gaggles) E175 at 89,000-lb.