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-   -   Doubling the MRJ order??? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/trans-states-airlines/111347-doubling-mrj-order.html)

Baradium 02-18-2018 05:15 PM


Originally Posted by Purpleanga (Post 2531742)
Look i get your point. You want mainline service from Beckley, WV to Washington DC. in a big Airbus or 737 allowing for mainline jobs. Of course who wouldn’t and I agree with you. Unfortunately that’s not reality. There will always need to be Regional service in North America. My point is would you rather there be 100 MRJs or 300 Small RJs flying around?

They can already operate the 100 MRJs. With mainline pilots. And they can operate as many 76 seaters as they want that way too.

No, I would not rather let a regional fly the 100 MRJ. I don't want regionals to have the smaller RJs as it is. If mainline wants the MRJ, they can buy them for mainline and it can be a mainline job. If these larger RJs become efficient enough it may just be worth it to them to pay mainline wages to the pilots.

sailingfun 02-18-2018 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2531685)
Delta caved on scope because merger policy was DOH. Delta inc, bought Comair/ASA for market share, and there should have been a merger when that happened. The history of RJ scope is basically Delta and Comair pilots really really hated each other.

Merger policy was not DOH or anything close. The Comair MEC did however make it a point that they would ask for DOH. Delta had been through two prior mergers in 86 and 91 and both were ratio’s based on equipment.
DOH as a component of ALPA merger policy was completely removed in 1991. It was reinstated as one component that could be considered in 2009.

Purpleanga 02-18-2018 10:14 PM


Originally Posted by Baradium (Post 2531834)
They can already operate the 100 MRJs. With mainline pilots. And they can operate as many 76 seaters as they want that way too.

No, I would not rather let a regional fly the 100 MRJ. I don't want regionals to have the smaller RJs as it is. If mainline wants the MRJ, they can buy them for mainline and it can be a mainline job. If these larger RJs become efficient enough it may just be worth it to them to pay mainline wages to the pilots.

Regional ops will always be cheaper than mainline even if pilots make mainline wages. I mean look at Republic, now they already make 100-140 an hour to fly an RJ.

Baradium 02-19-2018 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by Purpleanga (Post 2531959)
Regional ops will always be cheaper than mainline even if pilots make mainline wages. I mean look at Republic, now they already make 100-140 an hour to fly an RJ.

Not if the larger RJs that Republic can't fly due to scope cost enough less to operate.

trip 02-19-2018 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 2531751)
Thought experiment: what if “management” said, “we don’t need to fly RJs, if they want mainline pay”?

I know several pilots who wouldn’t be in any airplane were it not for RJs. You took the money.

GF

Sure, if they’re willing to fly a bus with 90 open seats every morning out of podunk Nebraska, effectively removing that same bus off a much more profitable route. The other option is leave the small markets and go head-head with all the LCCs.
Mainline pay? not even close, but 50% would be a huge improvement for the majority.

I’d be willing to call their bluff.

Bellanca 02-19-2018 08:26 AM

I really don't think it will be that hard to get the pilots to yield on 1200-1400lbs mtow of scope. They've always gave away scope, I'm sure there is a carrot big enough to get 51% to vote yes. If anything, quite a few pilots never flew for a regional, or are so far removed from the regional/commuter $hit$how that I lack faith that they will put thier foot down to stop this.

I really hope I'm wrong. I'd rather never set foot in an MRJ cockpit than to see UAL, AA, DAL pilots sell any scope. And if they do, I really hope it's only mtow, NOT more seats, too.

Bellanca 02-19-2018 10:36 AM


Originally Posted by Purpleanga (Post 2531959)
Regional ops will always be cheaper than mainline even if pilots make mainline wages. I mean look at Republic, now they already make 100-140 an hour to fly an RJ.

Are they already making these wages? or in a few years when the new pay scale tops out??

It's not just straight pay, most majors are throwing ~16% into the 401k, plus QOL, and being on a seniority list where you can bid a wide body or captain on 737 in a few short years to make double or more of what anyone at RAH or any other regional makes.

Baradium 02-19-2018 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by Bellanca (Post 2532144)
I really don't think it will be that hard to get the pilots to yield on 1200-1400lbs mtow of scope. They've always gave away scope, I'm sure there is a carrot big enough to get 51% to vote yes. If anything, quite a few pilots never flew for a regional, or are so far removed from the regional/commuter $hit$how that I lack faith that they will put thier foot down to stop this.

I really hope I'm wrong. I'd rather never set foot in an MRJ cockpit than to see UAL, AA, DAL pilots sell any scope. And if they do, I really hope it's only mtow, NOT more seats, too.


At this point a large portion of mainline pilots either came from regionals or watched furloughs happen at mainline because of the scope allowing the RJs. Even the new guys coming from MIL backgrounds seem to be very aware of scope and what it can cause.

I don't think there are enough guys close to retirement who would also sell out the industry for a quick buck for scope to get through anymore.

And 1400 lbs might not seem like a lot, but it might as well be 100,000 lbs if it means the company has to put the planes at mainline if they really want them.

Bellanca 02-19-2018 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by Baradium (Post 2532237)
At this point a large portion of mainline pilots either came from regionals or watched furloughs happen at mainline because of the scope allowing the RJs. Even the new guys coming from MIL backgrounds seem to be very aware of scope and what it can cause.

I don't think there are enough guys close to retirement who would also sell out the industry for a quick buck for scope to get through anymore.

And 1400 lbs might not seem like a lot, but it might as well be 100,000 lbs if it means the company has to put the planes at mainline if they really want them.

I definitely hope you're right. I have less faith in the pilot groups drawing a line over 1400lbs. I have no problems with flying the MRJ as a mainline pilot, but I hope I never see it on property here or any other regional.

I have something to gain (at least in the short term) by the MRJ coming to Trans States. We fly tired old 50 seats that have an expiration date coming sooner than later. However, this would NOT be good for the industry.

sailingfun 02-19-2018 11:28 AM


Originally Posted by Bellanca (Post 2532144)
I really don't think it will be that hard to get the pilots to yield on 1200-1400lbs mtow of scope. They've always gave away scope, I'm sure there is a carrot big enough to get 51% to vote yes. If anything, quite a few pilots never flew for a regional, or are so far removed from the regional/commuter $hit$how that I lack faith that they will put thier foot down to stop this.

I really hope I'm wrong. I'd rather never set foot in an MRJ cockpit than to see UAL, AA, DAL pilots sell any scope. And if they do, I really hope it's only mtow, NOT more seats, too.

Everyone predicted the pilot groups would yield on scope in the last round of contract negotiations. These aircraft were conceived along with the New version of the E175 with that premise in mind. Everyone was wrong. Much of the gains on scope made by the airlines were based on the premise the feed would increase mainline jobs. CEO’s also repeatadly promised that flying would return to the mainline when times got better. In fact neither happened. I suspect not 1 pound and not 1 seat will continue into the next round of contracts.
The other consideration is that they need the relief now. Orders need to be placed, plans made and slots procured. Contracts are amended all the time. No one is discussing this change.


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