Also of note, the Cseries 300 is scheduled for its first flight in 2 days and is supposed to start deliveries within the next year. Who is republic supposed to operate it for??

It'd be ideal on lots of Alaska routes out of SEA and no scope issues?

GF

There is definitely as cost advantage to the regional model, but I'm left wondering how much of an advantage it really is.

For example: SkyWest in 2013 had $59 million in profit on revenue of $3.3 billion. There's a 1.78% return. For this privilege, their mainline partners are willing to pay for all of the associated costs of having a management team and administration teams in place to run this company. So essentially, if you were to remove the senior and middle management and erroneous admin personnel, and push the aircraft over to the mainline certificate, you'd be saving quite a bit of money. You'd lose out on the hourly rate for the crews, but considering it would most likely go very junior, once a pilot had adequate seniority, they'd bid over to an existing airframe... so the years on the payscale past the first few would likely be unused.

There's a definite break-even point, and the margin is pretty close as it is. If the staffing at regionals gets bad enough, we might see someone try to find out exactly how much it costs...

Delta's net income for 2014 was only 1.7% of total Revenue. So, does that mean they should close those doors too?

I absolutely agree. Given an endless supply of cheap labor, they have no reason to change. In an environment where entry-level people are looking for incentives beyond "They offered me a job!" to pick a regional to work for, a little creativity might be in order.

You've missed the entire point. The point was regarding low profit margins as they're correlated to how much revenue a smaller aircraft can generate, when compared against the costs of erroneous management teams at companies that don't really need to exist.... not about the low profit margin of the airline industry in general.

You left out quite a bit.

Mainline benefits
Mainline FAs
Mainline mechanics
Mainline tampers
Mainline ground support

Many years ago, AMR offered the APA the CRJ-700s that were going to Eagle if they could make it cost neutral. The pilots could, but they couldn't get the rest of he above mentioned groups to.

Scope is a mouthwash.

Legacy execs take a swig, gargle, rinse and spit it out.

It then contains germs.

The "New American" just got their contract. Looks like the MRJ is outside the scope.. Thank God!
But now comes Delta.
Will Delta Management want something to keep Profit Sharing for the pilots?
Will they ask/demand for the MRj to be flown with 88 seats total (giving it a Business First/EconPlus/Economy seating) at the regionals?

Time will tell. Delta is the next showdown~
BUT
Don't rule out the "other" players. Virgin America? JetBlue? Alaska?

On a side note-
That plane was built by Asians for Asians. Can't wait to see how Americans and The West fits into it!

Motch

You do know who's actually buying these planes right? They are mainline planes being flown by regional pilots.

The regional airline system is a massive B scale for the mainlines. The more they can get away with it the more they will push it.

Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. The unions no longer work for the pilots.

Well of course it would take either every single pilot simply refusing to accept jobs at regionals which will never happen or it will take the unions making a stand and refusing to allow mainline to hire any pilots that ever work for a regional... also something that will never happen.

The best way to get rid of the B scale model for mainline that the regionals have become is to get rid of the enabler which is seniority. Kill the underlying system and you kill the business model.

How to go about doing that? It would take a concerted effort from the regional airline pilots to take control of their own unions back from the mainline and management.

At which mainline airlines do the unions do the hiring?

I understand demand and load factors, however, you have me with this market as I don't operate up there.

In general, there are several markets that could be up-gauged but major airlines may not have the fleet type to do it, and that is slowly changing.

That's easy, just get regional pilots to care enough to dump ALPA. Regional pilot are only concerned with complaining. Actually doing something about something is a completely different story.

And just what would that accomplish?

all of them!!!

The naievity never ceases to amaze me.

They will easily be cancelled and built for markets where scope does not exist, Asian markets can absorb many of those orders easily wit their growth.

The big savings in regional flying is in the thousands of apps of regional pilots at the various majors. This significantly reduces the pattern bargaining power of mainline pilots by distorting the market value of a pilot to the downside.

Exactly right! By eliminating competition for jobs for all but entry level new hire positions, airlines have effectively eliminated the forces of free market competition for all pilot jobs allowing them to keep wages artificially low across the board.

It still amazes me when Delta pilots come in here bragging about their new contracts. It's as if they truly believe they are well paid just because they make more than some other airlines. 200k per year after a 20-30 year career investment is not that much money really.

Well, when you think about the difficulty of the "job" and realize most people do it because it's easy money and a lot more fun than a real job (ie sitting at a desk for 50-80 hours a week, staring at a computer, going to meetings, etc), and one that at some levels doesn't require even a college degree, making 6 figures, especially 200+ to "work" 15 days a month (including deadheads and other creative ways to credit more flying than actually accomplished), is quite a bit given the relatively low time spent actually working. People leave 6 figure real jobs to fly regionals. There's a reason for that.

That reason is those people are naive.

Divide income by TAFB (instead of hours flown, or even hours credited) and the "easy money" doesn't quite seem such a good deal.

Uh some people enjoy being away from home. Just because you are away from home doesn't mean you are working, or making money for the company that writes your check. And a lot of real jobs require travel as well.

And I don't think naive is the right word. They knowingly get into the industry and stay, knowing a 6 figure job is out there still. Clearly they have their reasons for doing the airline thing.

So if you work in an industry for 20-30 years you should make more than 200k?? You realize that most Americans who are higher educated and have less time off than you will never break $100k? At 200k a year you're easily in the top 5% of HOUSHOLDS. So how is that unfair?

No one who moves as much revenue as we do, gets paid so little of a percentage of it as we do. Except ship captains, of course.

And truck drivers. And fork lift operators. And warehouse managers. And train engineers. And bus drivers. And subway operators.

Actually, i think most of those folks get paid more than you.

TAFB doesn't count. We fly around lots of people who are on the road all of the time too. If you get into the airline business you know that comes with the job so no complaining about it on the back end!

Not complaining about being on the road as it is part of the job...but saying the only "work" an airline pilot does is block time is disingenuous.

I dunno about you guys, but a layover (ie. not at home) feels kinda like "work" to me....especially if you are close to the max duty/min rest limits and double-especially if you're beholden to a hotel with limited food options.

Doesn't mean you can't enjoy your "rest", but it also doesn't mean you aren't "at work" either.

*shrug*

Each minute not spent at home is work in my eyes.

[QUOTE=24/48;1831016]This ^^^ every route is mainline. I really hope most go back. It will actually be better for all of us in the long run.

Railroad engineers average at $36K. Not a single person here is arguing that FO pay doesn't need improvement. The point I was making, if you've read what I said, was that $200k after 20 years is not poor pay.

You're joking right?

Ain't at home. Ain't free to do as I please. On company time. I'd say he ain't joking.

Seems like some people need to get out of the industry if being away from momma bothers them so much....let me get some tweezers!

I am where I am soley on someone else's behalf. Its not that I'm away from mama, its that I'm here not on my own volition but because work says I have to be. I'm here on an overnight because I have to be. It's not my choice. Oh...and while you're busy being a wise a**...my kids are going to bed without a dad tonite.

Not even close CB, it takes almost 100 locomotives to generate the same revenue as a 777. Aviation\aerospace is close to 20% of world GDP. Nobody out there is getting the shaft like we are.

Boo hoo. People who travel for work don't get paid more for traveling. Salaried employees don't get over time or more for working all weekends. They either do their job or get fired no matter how much time they have off. And yes, they get paid less than an average regional captain. I don't feel bad for you or your kids. It was your choice to work in a job that is 100% travel.