Trans States acknowledges MRJ scope issues
 

This was on the ALPA daily email.
Trans States expects first MRJ in 2017; awaits scope clause relief | Airframes content from ATWOnline

[QUOTE=tom11011;1830907]This was on the ALPA daily email.
Trans States expects first MRJ in 2017; awaits scope clause relief | Airframes content from ATWOnline


Skywest also has a 100 orders for the MRJ 90. Do they know something we don't? Lets all hope that the mainline pilots never let scope limits allow this big of an airplane, it belongs at the mainline. Hopefully TSA and Skywest just change their orders to MRJ70s.

[QUOTE=PilotLife4me;1830916]
Yes, they know something you don't.

They could also lease them to the majors.

Another step backwards for everyone if these MRJ90s are parked at any regional carrier. I pray to little baby jesus tonight, "Dear 9lbs 8oz little sweet baby jesus, please give strength to all mainline pilots everywhere to raise the middle finger in the face of any regional manager that even mentions scope". In all his little cute glory ...AMEN

[QUOTE=PilotLife4me;1830916]i agree with your philosophy but the MRJ is no bigger than the 170/175 ( i believe 70-80 seats)

[QUOTE=IlliniPilot99;1830944]It's not the number of seats, it's MTOW, right?

Either way, 175s should not/never have been at the regionals - they should be flown by mainline because they do mainline routes.

[QUOTE=Mercyful Fate;1830954]Hub to hub and 1,000 plus NM is a no brainer.

[QUOTE=Mercyful Fate;1830954]hub to hub or hub to city that allows only a certain number of passenger seat miles per hour

[QUOTE=block30;1830956]They routinely put 145s and 200s on hub-to-hub routes. Does that make those airplanes a mainline aircraft?

I agree about the 1000nm part though. A 3-hour flight is a mainline flight. Anything over 1.5-2 really.

[QUOTE=Mercyful Fate;1830954] Whatever mainline scope says it is....

TSA and Skywest ordered the MRJ 90 series.....that's the 86 to 96 seat version

[QUOTE=CBreezy;1830960]Sure. Let's put them back to mainline.

[QUOTE=Mercyful Fate;1830959]before coming to TSA...shuttle america almost did exclusive hub to hub

ORD to EWR
EWR to IAH
IAD to IAH
IAD to DFW
DEN to IAH

and tons more

Had a SkyWest corporate officer in my jumpseat, not saying who but he's a big shot. SkyWest will never see the MRJ. Many moons ago when it was choosing between buying the CRJ-200 and the ERJ-145 they had both companies bring one to St George, this while knowing full well that they were going with CRJ's all along. That is THE BEST way to get somebody that's selling something to come down on the price. Fast forward to now, same trick, I even know how much it's going to cost to back out of the deal. To you and me its a lot but the cost saving will be realized with just two aircraft orders. Also long term plan here is to go with an all ERJ fleet, but that's WAAAAAYY down the road. And our airframe count is coming down too, there's been articles in industry publications so this isn't new news. Right now SkyWest Inc. has about 740 airframes and it will come down to 600 total across both companies. Canadair apparently sucks for supporting the 200's and the 900's are being delivered with a known AD that costs over a million to fix when the time comes up. But as we all know things are not set in stone when it comes to planning. Good example is, the EMB-120, same guy was tasked with winding down those three different times, he was always able to find a nice balance of spare aircraft vs. block hours and turn a tidy profit since they mostly went into high yield markets. Then Part 117, and the one remaining parts supplier charging a fortune for parts, and its over in a couple months. But then MRJ's could all of a sudden be selling for half off and then the metrics change drastically.... that's life!!!!

[QUOTE=Mercyful Fate;1830954]Everything flown under the the mainline code like UA, or DL is a mainline route. Some are outsourced, and some are not.

[QUOTE=24/48;1831016]we all know that he was asking what should constitute a regional vs mainline route.

As long as you guys keep showing up to work at these airlines they will continue to grow. Every time scope concessions occur people said it would never be allowed. They wont stop until you are flying narrow body 150 seaters and getting paid 20k to sit right seat in an airbus.

Then what do you suggest prospective pilots do to build time to get enough magic hours to get hired by a non-hiring major? We can't make people retire at 60. We can't suggest you sell your 3rd house and take a pay cut to avoid scope losses.

Any route that was once flown by mainline pilots.





Yes, all of them.

Compass does a lot of LAX-SEA in 175's.

It has nothing to do with hours needed. The majors have the exact same regulations as the regionals and the exact same hiring requirements to do the exact same job. If you are willing to work for $20k per year then that's what they'll pay.

Regional pilots are nothing more than mainline pilots working on a B scale.

Airline hiring minimums are solely a function of supply and the available pool of pilots. What do you think the hiring minimums would be at the majors if regional airlines didn't exist?

E-170 was a mainline plane(Mid-Atlantic)before Airways sold them off.

Mainline pilots have a bad history of selling scope for preservation

Yep...and we will continue until there's nothing left.

And I was simply stating all of them if it using the mainline code.

Please stay strong on scope, and encourage your fellow pilots to do the same then. Most of us here in the minor leagues want to see you guys doing as much flying as possible.

If it were feasible to get hired at a major and skip the regional game we would. For many of us this is the best way to get competitive and move on to a career type carrier. Essentially saying "don't work for that kind of pay" is akin to us saying "don't vote away scope." Easier said than done.

Spot on! There is no difference between an E170 and an E190, both are the same type. The regionals exist because the market was saturated with pilots hungry for a flying job. Management dangled the "Big Iron" in front of the mainline pilots for a few "regional jets" to be outsourced. We all know where that led us.

Here we are today......an industry starving for pilots at the regional level because the pipeline is full, and flowing at a high rate, in to the mainline. Over the next few years I suspect we'll see mainline pilots flying more of these routes while regionals shrink to the supply of pilot applicants. You may even see mainline taking pilots out of flight training. It's not like that hasn't ever happened, in fact, UA interns got hired straight out of college.

The mrj hasn't even had it's first flight yet. It is scheduled to be delivered in 2017. That's at least two years from now. That might as well be a decade in aviation time. Skybus might have returned by then who knows what things will look like.

Only thing I've heard is they might take some seats out and certify it for weight that fits scope.

Remember when regionals were commuters, and "large small jets" were DC9-10s?

i agree except it has....about a few months ago...but i agree

No not yet.

I think you're having a problem differentiating the term "mainline route" from current mainline aircraft.

Your straw-man argument came charging into battle when you mentioned 737's.

Who says DAL would have to fly it with a 737? Why not a 717? Why not a 190, provided DAL were to add it to it's fleet? The fact that it is a DL coded flight means it's mainline, right now it just so happens to be outsourced.

Negative!

I'd consider a mainline route to be a city pairing that is or once was served by mainline crews. Also, any route that is served by a CPA carrier at the request of a mainline carrier. SkyWest, Republic, Horizon, PSA... none of these companies did the market research and decided operating into BTM or CPR was a good idea. That was done by UAL/DAL/AAG/Alaska.

A mainline aircraft is just that. An aircraft operated by mainline. At present, the smallest of which seems to be the 737/319/E190/MD80 types. The moment a mainline carrier buys a new type, it's a mainline aircraft. What we have at present is a bunch of mainline routes being flown by regional pilots in aircraft operated by regionals. There's nothing preventing a mainline carrier from purchasing some E175's or CRJ's and operating them with mainline pilots.

The whole thing is just semantics, used by management to excuse the sub-standard pay and quality of life that is experienced by those working at contract carriers. The point of my earlier post was to illustrate the fact that "regionals" are nothing of the sort. Contract carriers are flying long domestic routes that are on par with their mainline counterparts. This is problematic from a compensation and career advancement point of view.