Just keep be willing to work for less. Keep telling yourself you're overpaid.

I don't think so. MidAtlantic was the 4th WO for US Airways along with PDT, ALG and PSA.

They staffed it will Furloughed Mainline pilots and when enough didn't take the crappy job and pay they staffed it with pilots from ALG and PDT that wanted to flow up.

The pay was nothing like mainline. It sucked!!

I think I'm underpaid. I'm telling you that it's worse in most other jobs in corporate America. I don't feel bad for any airline pilot being away from his family. It's the job. If you wanted to be home every night, you can be a salesman or manager.

So since I chose to become an airline pilot does that mean my time should have no value? What is the value you place on your time away from home?

You accepted your job knowing full well that you'd be spending a lot of time away from home. You accepted it knowing that you don't get paid unless you are flying. You can't sign a contract and then complain that it is inadequate. I guess you can but you'll get no sympathy from me.

So you place zero value on your time spent away from home is what you're saying.

And since you don't think people should complain over inadequate contracts you disagree with any efforts for unions to improve contracts?

Are you certain of this? The bigger the company, the less likely it is they get away with having employees work for free. Traveling should be done during business hours, and if it goes beyond the allotted time, then over time or some sort of compensatory time. Usually, if you are on the company's time, you are being paid. If you work more than 40 in a week or 80 in a payperiod, you get overtime. Not sure what corporate world you are referring to, except maybe what you are used to. What you are stating above is only the "rule" for the airline industry and pilots.

Not the point! We all make choices in life. If you decide to be an airline pilot don't ***** about being away from home. I've been through numerous deployments in life so I have no patience listening to a bunch of ******** complain about being away from home sleeping in a Sheraton in downtown Nashville etc. Especially when they chose to be in this profession. I'm sure many of you are the types that recieved participation trophies as well.

"Dumb and dumber" :D

That pretty much describes the complete garbage spewed out by those two in the past few pages.

Makes me wonder what they are really all about.

Cbreezy, huskerav8tr and facebitten seem to be of the attitude that pilots are well paid and have a low stress and easy job.

They must have very low expectations in life, have no understanding of the history of the piloting profession, and no interest in working with other pilots to make things better.

The way they got all over this together is just a bit weird. I say that regional pilots need to stand up and take control of your unions back from management and the mainlines and they jump all over me and other posters saying airline pilots have an easy job and are paid well enough for how little work they do actually do.

I really cant believe what I saw they had all just typed into this thread. I've never met an actual regional pilot in person with that attitude. Makes me wonder.

So here I am inciting pilots to unite and they jump in here to derail that with a bunch of nonsense. Hmmm.

My significant other works in corporate America and is salary. She is required to be contactable at all times and travels on weekends and holidays occasionally. While she can receive a comp day for that, she doesn't get paid a penny more to be away for a week at a time. I actually spend more time at home than she has days off. Whe she's on the road, she spends 12-16 hours working and receives zero extra compensation. OT is only paid to hourly employees.

To the rest, you can call me dumb, but I assure you I'm more educated than you. Just because I find it assinine to be complaining about not being able to tuck your kids in at night like this is some sort of injustice doesn't mean I'm dumb. Firefighters, police, and military often miss holidays and "tucking their kids in." I don't see them demanding to be paid more than $250k a year because their kids miss daddy. You signed on the dotted line knowing full well that you'd be spending half the month away from home. If you signed up thinking that would magically change then maybe you should point your insults at the person who made such a stupid decision in The first place.

Yet another brilliant budding financial wizard. United should go back to flying 50 people back and forth from COS to DEN on a DC10 (or 767 now). Because it's a mainline route. Good grief.

That was pretty funny right there!

Your math is flawed. Assume an average Segment ticket costs $100. You believe that you should make 10% of total revenue? That's laughable. How much revenue do you think goes toward aircraft leases, fuel, parts, maintenance, catering, cleaning, fees, etc? Then Add in admin costs like dispatch, scheduling, management, recruiting, training, insurance, IT, etc. On an hour flight, fuel ALONE costs $30/person (conservative estimate assuming 2000lb fuel burn and $5/gal). I'd imagine leases account for no less than 40%. So, that leaves 20% to split for all the rest? Start an airline and let me know how that works out.

Seriously, What is wrong with you?

All this smells like astroturfing to me.

This discussion is getting too dangerous because you are afraid pilots are beginning to see the truth and become "educated" like you?

I believe you are educated which is why I think you're a complete fake along with your buddies.

My feelings? I'm here to support regional pilots. What are you?

Lobby? Lobby? Since when do airline pilots "lobby?" You're sounding like a PR worker, not a pilot. Besides you didn't say that. You said pilots should quit complaining about pay because they knew what they were getting into and they have an easy job and don't work that hard.

No. I said pilots should quit complaining about being away from home and that $200k is PLENTY of money for a pilot. There are a few people on here who can verify I'm one person and you're paranoid. Also, FB and I have argued many times before because I say bad things about Mesa's poor contract and he disagrees. Put your tinfoil hat back on.

Do you think you'll be one of the guys that makes Year 20 Captain pay at a Legacy carrier someday?

Unfortunately the truth is very few of us will. And if you aren't hired on with one of the legacies in the next few years you likely won't either.

I've been at the airlines two years, never have had more than twelve days off in a month. I enjoy my job and am not complaining, but the only way to make decent money at the regionals is to work your tail off. For guys that commute and try to work that schedule, I can see how they would get burned out. Commuting is a choice I know.

[QUOTE=PilotLife4me;1830916][QUOTE=tom11011;1830907]

Lets all hope that the mainline pilots never let scope limits allow this big of an airplane, it belongs at the mainline. [QUOTE]

Don't worry Delta mgmt. will throw a couple bucks an hour at the Delta pilots in return for regionals flying these, and the pilots will cave like normal.

Lets put it this way....and notice my avatar when you read this. I have had some rough days with less pay. Now, so you're feelings aren't offended, I believe we are very highly trained and deserve more. Don't tell me how stressed you are though. This job consists of showing up on time doing the job we were trained for and going home.

Lots of people have served our country. I applaud you. It however doesn't give you the right to be a bully.

in fact, very few vets I know bring their service up in order to silence opposition like you do.

Everyone has an opinion. Agree to disagree.

Personally, I think this argument is so dumb I can't believe it has gone this many pages. You two are just having a urination contest.

His point is very valid for this argument. I'm sorry you think someone in the military saying "I had less days off, got paid less, and my life was more in danger" sounds like bullying. To me, saying I only get 14 days off and may only get get paid $200K in the future sounds like spoiled whining.

Not looking for an applause just putting things in perspective. Some people can't handle it. With that I'm done with the conversation.

Perspective? How dare you! I get my facts from hearsay. When I was in high school, I talked to a pilot who said he made half a mill to work 6 days a month. Anyone who tries to tell me different? LA
ALALALA!

The argument needs to be reframed from one of selling scope for more money to seniority preservation at mainline (more airplanes at mainline means seniority protection for mainline pilots).

Free training

Free college

In many cases, free flight training either in the service or with GI Bill

Free room and board

Free health care

Come on...I was military too, it was a pretty good gig.

Plus, when you transferred somewhere, you didn't start out at E-1 again :)

Trans States acknowledges MRJ scope issues.
 

Someone should have squawked 7500 several pages ago.

Can we get back to the original topic?

If y'all want to change the discussion,....... start another thread.

Modern Slavery
 

The problem is that we complain and complain and complain but do nothing about the situation and yet we expect things to miraculously change, that's the definition of Insanity my friends. It's modern day slavery :( they are trying to make things as difficult as possible so that you either quit or go insane. This profession has been destroyed at the regional level. There is no adequate compensation which is ok as long as there is quality of life (multiple days off, commutable lines, productive trips). Now we gave in to more concessions and our quality of life is been taken away. Yet there's plenty of mediocre 2nd and 3rd class pilots getting hire by the regionals cause this companies need to fill the seats. Here's the F*&K part about this, the FAA implemented all this changes (1500hrs, 117 rules) all to help place experience and well rested pilots in the cockpit. I wonder what they'll do when a plane slam into the ground cause by pilot error:eek::confused:. Always have a backup plan.

Oh I noticed your avatar. So does that mean I can call you EightGturn? ;)

I'm not stressed when I am flying over the North Atlantic or the Pacific rim...bored maybe, not stressed.

What is your purpose with your trash talk trying to keep regional pilots in their place? Are you somehow threatened that regional pilots may prove to be better than you? Do you feel anyone who hasn't served is beneath you and shouldn't speak out or stand up for what they believe? It's just bizarre that's all. I'm not threatened and you can't bully me.
__________________________________________________ ____________

Getting back on topic....scope and seniority go hand in hand as I've said before. Seniority at regionals is just a massive B scale that management created using the existing age old system of seniority at airlines as an enabler. Scope is the tool they use to create the B scale.

Regional jets were initially designed with scope in mind and under the direction and guidelines of the mainline airlines, not regionals. The mainlines knew they could use these jets to replace the aging smaller DC-9-10, Fokker 100s, and 737s they were using at lower seat mile costs with an already established structure of low pay at commuter airlines that flew small fleets of turboprops in "regional" locations around the country.

Back in the old days before internet and advanced real time pricing designed to fill airplanes, the airlines operated under the philosophy of "load factors" and aimed to make a profit with about 60-70% full flights on average. So essentially a small DC-9 was similar to a 50 seat jet today in mission capability except the 50 seater is significantly more efficient to operate...especially on one hour segments.

Mainlines just realized that they can keep pushing this model and all these 70-90 seat jets can literally take over routes that used to be flown by 737s and MD-80s carrying the same number of passengers by pushing near 100% capacity. Pilots forget how much more efficient airlines are at selling capacity these days...that is until you try to send your family standby somewhere. It used to be a rare thing to have a full flight.

Mainline pilots fail to fully realize just how far they've sold out the bottom halves of their companies with scope. They are brainwashed into thinking regional jets (they're not even regional jets anymore) are "beginner airplanes" and not worth having in their fleet. They fail to see they are just a massive B scale for their own pilots to fly routes they used to fly at mainline. And the added bonus for mainline is they can hire new pilots much later in their careers so they may never even see 20 year pay scales before they retire and if they do it will be for less time.

Now that 50 seaters are being phased out and some airlines (Mesa) aren't even operating jets that small anymore the stage is being set to push scope even farther. The only obstacle that remains is the supply of low cost pilots to fly them.

This is why I say now is the time for the pilots (especially regionals) to take back control of their unions and force the airlines' hand. There has never been a better opportunity to kill this thing and force the flying back to the mainline.

That pretty well says it. I don't think the deliberate intention of management is to make life difficult...it's just sort of a by product of not caring.

Not sure I understand this. Overall the 1500 hour rule gives huge bargaining power to professional pilots to use against airlines to stop the madness. I don't think it fully solved the problem and I think there are additional steps the Feds could make to really force change and open the doors back up to experienced pilots out there.

If your implication is that the pilot shortage is forcing you to work longer hours that's not a bad thing. The normal reaction to a labor shortage is to try to get more productivity out of existing workforce but that only works in the very short term before there is backlash.

Now is the time for the backlash!!

Mod Note:

Instead of going blind and crazy trying to clean up this thread, I'll just close it. Try again in a new thread, but please stay on topic and don't get into name calling and use of profanity (patent ones or disguised ones).