Trans States or Air Wisconsin?
05-12-2015, 08:09 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: left seat CRJ (again!)
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Future Cpt Kirk
Ok,
I know I am opening myself up to a large amount of criticisms and commentary by posting this thread. But hopefully I will gain some valuable insights....
As some of you may know from reading AWAC and TSA threads or my earlier thread "ERJ 145 vs. CRJ 200), I recently interviewed with and was offered positions at both AWAC and TSA. I am leaning towards TSA, but would like to get the insights of current regional (and any major pilots on here) as to what you might do if you were in MY situation. Hindsight is 20/20... Please keep that in mind. I'm a new hire; I am not experienced in the industry.
I am looking for solid, empirical information as to why one may be a better choice over the other for my situation.
About me: I live in Northern VA (driving distance to an IAD or DCA base). I have a family to help support and can't afford bottom of the barrel pay. AWAC is highest paying with TSA fairly close behind. They both have DC bases and as a result are my top two choices.
Things I know:
AWAC:
Pro's: Has the best contract, pay, and supposedly QOL.
Con's: No long term contract exists. The extension takes operations through the first quarter 2016 with little or no growth currently forecast unless a new contract is signed. Upgrade times = 3.5-4 years. Soooo... If things did not work out for AWAC, I could end up having to find a new job at another company as an FO after three years when the current contract extension expires. I'd be starting over. If a new contract is signed, that still leaves the factor of a longer upgrade on the table.
TSA:
Pro's: Seven year contract with UAL. Doubling in size this year. Hiring like wildfire and current upgrade times are 1.5 years. Above average pay and I hear QOL is pretty good. 10k sign on bonus.
Con's: Lower pay than AWAC and probably not quite as good QOL and work rules, but still good from what I hear. Also, if I don't get an IAD base (I have been told by most that I have spoken to that I probably will get an IAD base right out of or soon after training), the commute from the DC area would suck. I'm trying to find other cons for TSA.... But off the top of my head, I don't have any.
50 seater question: Any actual empirical data to show that I should completely stay away from the 50 seaters in general? For the most part guys are telling me not to worry about this, especially with TSA since their contract is good for seven years... But some keep brining it up to me and say I should look into Mesa or PSA (whose wages I would have a hard time with given my situation).
What I keep hearing is people telling me to go to AWAC (mostly current AWAC pilots, but not all) despite the recent failure to get a new long term contract going and the uncertainty of their long term future. "They will figure something out; they always do," is a common phrase I hear. I know the pay, work rules and QOL are great. I know the company treats its employees well. But I also know that it could be dicey for a current new hire if things don't work out for them long term. Anyone hired now will likely still be an FO when negotiations come back around in 2017-2018.
I appreciate any insight that is given. Let's please try to keep it civil.
I know I am opening myself up to a large amount of criticisms and commentary by posting this thread. But hopefully I will gain some valuable insights....
As some of you may know from reading AWAC and TSA threads or my earlier thread "ERJ 145 vs. CRJ 200), I recently interviewed with and was offered positions at both AWAC and TSA. I am leaning towards TSA, but would like to get the insights of current regional (and any major pilots on here) as to what you might do if you were in MY situation. Hindsight is 20/20... Please keep that in mind. I'm a new hire; I am not experienced in the industry.
I am looking for solid, empirical information as to why one may be a better choice over the other for my situation.
About me: I live in Northern VA (driving distance to an IAD or DCA base). I have a family to help support and can't afford bottom of the barrel pay. AWAC is highest paying with TSA fairly close behind. They both have DC bases and as a result are my top two choices.
Things I know:
AWAC:
Pro's: Has the best contract, pay, and supposedly QOL.
Con's: No long term contract exists. The extension takes operations through the first quarter 2016 with little or no growth currently forecast unless a new contract is signed. Upgrade times = 3.5-4 years. Soooo... If things did not work out for AWAC, I could end up having to find a new job at another company as an FO after three years when the current contract extension expires. I'd be starting over. If a new contract is signed, that still leaves the factor of a longer upgrade on the table.
TSA:
Pro's: Seven year contract with UAL. Doubling in size this year. Hiring like wildfire and current upgrade times are 1.5 years. Above average pay and I hear QOL is pretty good. 10k sign on bonus.
Con's: Lower pay than AWAC and probably not quite as good QOL and work rules, but still good from what I hear. Also, if I don't get an IAD base (I have been told by most that I have spoken to that I probably will get an IAD base right out of or soon after training), the commute from the DC area would suck. I'm trying to find other cons for TSA.... But off the top of my head, I don't have any.
50 seater question: Any actual empirical data to show that I should completely stay away from the 50 seaters in general? For the most part guys are telling me not to worry about this, especially with TSA since their contract is good for seven years... But some keep brining it up to me and say I should look into Mesa or PSA (whose wages I would have a hard time with given my situation).
What I keep hearing is people telling me to go to AWAC (mostly current AWAC pilots, but not all) despite the recent failure to get a new long term contract going and the uncertainty of their long term future. "They will figure something out; they always do," is a common phrase I hear. I know the pay, work rules and QOL are great. I know the company treats its employees well. But I also know that it could be dicey for a current new hire if things don't work out for them long term. Anyone hired now will likely still be an FO when negotiations come back around in 2017-2018.
I appreciate any insight that is given. Let's please try to keep it civil.
AWAC...
There is concern that some of the older CRJs will parked due to the same reason Comair's older CRJs were parked. That was a 40,000 hour limit and I believe that's due to limitations on the landing gear system.
Their health insurance is pretty good and probably better than TSA's.
TSA...
Health insurance for a family is expensive. The pilot's share is over $500 monthly.
TSA is getting more 145s coming over at three per month. They also have the MRJs on order but there is some doubt about those arriving on the property. The current contract states the first 10 MRJs will go to TSA should TS Holdings actually start accepting deliveries. Scope is another concern regarding the MRJs.
I can't, and won't, speak for AWAC management. At TSA, the D.O. is a former Comair chief pilot, sim instructor and, IIRC, the last EMB-120 program manager there. He is well regarded by the TSA pilot group. The IAD chief pilot is also former Comair. I know him and he's a good man.
Overall, go to the carrier where you can live at your crew base. That makes QOL substantially better. Having said that, I used to live in Northern Virginia. Dealing with the traffic in that area might make you wish you were commuting!
Last edited by Slim11; 05-12-2015 at 08:24 AM. Reason: spelling
05-12-2015, 08:28 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,182
I have been at Whiskey for 2 years. I only applied at Whiskey and Horizon. Its of no coincidence that they both offer superior contracts and pay in comparison, to most, regionals.
In my opinion, your compensation, benefits and QOL of like should be the most important thing rather than an upgrade. The days of absolutely having to have TPIC are dwindling. None of the big 3 even have it has a requirement anymore. Now does it help? Of course. However, its not the absolute necessity that it once was.
Outside of getting hired as a street captain, no one truly has control over the left seat as it is. As hiring continues more and more senior FOs, who do network and make themselves stand out, are getting hired at the next level. We have had a quite a few leave Whiskey recently.
The fast moving regional today, is closed in 1 year. The place that everyone ragged on for not growing now is growing because it can staff others flying. I came into this sector of the career not particualarly worrying or caring what might happen at the end of 2015. I knew I was going to be at a great place, with a really good contract (which certainly contributes to a great QOL) and, for the most part, don't commute. I honestly can't complain much about where I work. That was what was important to me. I refused to be part of the problem and go to complete bottom feeder, garbage, operations.
I guess what I am saying is. There are 2.5 years until Feb 2018. I came here with exactly 2.5 years left on the contract. I did so not worrying about the future. I knew I was going to get great experience, while making the most money (as an FO assuming no upgrade) and have a decent life while doing this job. So far its worked as planned.
Currently I am less than 100 away from CA as of the last vacancy bid. I would guess it might be another 1 year + (maybe a couple months). That puts its at 3 years. The 4-5 year upgrades were in the past. Things are definitely moving here as they are everywhere.
In my opinion, your compensation, benefits and QOL of like should be the most important thing rather than an upgrade. The days of absolutely having to have TPIC are dwindling. None of the big 3 even have it has a requirement anymore. Now does it help? Of course. However, its not the absolute necessity that it once was.
Outside of getting hired as a street captain, no one truly has control over the left seat as it is. As hiring continues more and more senior FOs, who do network and make themselves stand out, are getting hired at the next level. We have had a quite a few leave Whiskey recently.
The fast moving regional today, is closed in 1 year. The place that everyone ragged on for not growing now is growing because it can staff others flying. I came into this sector of the career not particualarly worrying or caring what might happen at the end of 2015. I knew I was going to be at a great place, with a really good contract (which certainly contributes to a great QOL) and, for the most part, don't commute. I honestly can't complain much about where I work. That was what was important to me. I refused to be part of the problem and go to complete bottom feeder, garbage, operations.
I guess what I am saying is. There are 2.5 years until Feb 2018. I came here with exactly 2.5 years left on the contract. I did so not worrying about the future. I knew I was going to get great experience, while making the most money (as an FO assuming no upgrade) and have a decent life while doing this job. So far its worked as planned.
Currently I am less than 100 away from CA as of the last vacancy bid. I would guess it might be another 1 year + (maybe a couple months). That puts its at 3 years. The 4-5 year upgrades were in the past. Things are definitely moving here as they are everywhere.
05-12-2015, 08:39 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: 0B
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Future Cpt Kirk
Con's: No long term contract exists.
05-12-2015, 09:56 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by ArcherDvr
TSA sucked before I was fired, why else does a company have to grossly misrepresent itself to attract pilots. I am still in the industry and doing ten times better than if I were still at TSA.Hands down, Air Whiskey.
05-12-2015, 10:00 AM
#35
2 days off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Embraer Systems Analyst
Posts: 1,853
Originally Posted by ArcherDvr
TSA sucked before I was fired, why else does a company have to grossly misrepresent itself to attract pilots. I am still in the industry and doing ten times better than if I were still at TSA.Hands down, Air Whiskey.
05-12-2015, 10:35 AM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Trans States or Air Wisconsin?
Originally Posted by Slim11
TSA is getting more 145s coming over at three per month. They also have the MRJs on order but there is some doubt about those arriving on the property. The current contract states the first 10 MRJs will go to TSA should TS Holdings actually start accepting deliveries. Scope is another concern regarding the MRJs.
This is a good point and one that I hadn't thought of. TSH owns three airlines. So it looks like a setup for whipsaw if they are only guaranteeing the first 10 MRJs to TSA. Keep in mind that they own Gojet and Compass. So who is the cheapest operator? There is the whipsaw.
The only thing to prevent this is if the TSA MEC uses any and all negotiating capital to one list all three airlines.
05-12-2015, 01:52 PM
#37
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 726
Originally Posted by minimwage4
You'd be a captain by now, at an airline.
05-12-2015, 01:58 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 558
Originally Posted by ArcherDvr
I'm still better off.
05-12-2015, 02:16 PM
#39
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 726
Originally Posted by Coneydog
Sure you are...
05-12-2015, 02:23 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by ArcherDvr
Yeah, I sure am. Hands down Air Whiskey.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
