TheDashRocks

This kills me. It is okay for businesses to form "Chambers of Commerce" or other associations to network and try to maximize profits. It is fine for CEO's to receive exorbitant salaries, bonuses, stock discounts, pensions, and perks. Execs have a much higher level of control when bargaining for pay and benefits than the average worker ever will. Corporations can hire lawyers and other experts to hide profits and move the HQ overseas to avoid supporting the war on terror with their tax dollars.

Greed is praised to the mountain tops until working men and women join together to try to increase their leverage in bargaining for pay and benefits. When workers try to achieve higher pay, better health care, and a secure retirement plan, it's socialism. Dollars in the hands of working men and women drives the economy forward more quickly than accumulated wealth of the monied class.

You just keep on kissing the whip hand, my good man. Would you like to work 12 hours a day? How would you feel about a 6 day work week? Would you like to have your 10 year old child work in a coal mine? These things did not change because employers suddenly had a crisis of conscience. Workers formed unions and literally fought and died for these changes. I hope you never find yourself physically wrecked and financially ruined by a catastrophic illness with no health insurance.

Andy Stern, head of the SEIU once said that unions have to find ways to keep workers from competing against each other for lower pay and benefits. The piloting profession needs a national seniority list and a national contract. One rate of pay based on aircraft size, one set of work rules and benefits for all pilots.

The Dash Whisperer

heywood

our union has run past its useful life. The corporate greed has infultrated our ranks. ALPA National could give a rip what happens at the "bottom feeder" level. As long as everyone keeps paying their dues no one at the top will notice the people at the bottom. What does the "upper brass" of ALPA make per year?? I believe that if Prater and his hentchmen's salaries we reduced to an average of all ALPA pilots Then and only Then would they begin to give two sh*$s about what happens at the bottom. We all need to stand united, but this so called "union", that cannot protect us from "the Man", is a waste of time and resources.

ebl14

WRONG!!! The government will not mandate pay rates, only the pilots can band together to force this! I'm not for re-regulation, I'm for pilot unity. If ALPA were really a strong national union they claim to be, when the MESA ALPA pilots are working on a contract, or the Pinnacle pilots are working on a contract, ALL OF ALPA IS WORKING ON A CONTRACT! This is no union, this is an association, a social club.

skidmark

Well I guess I have managed to upset a few people. Oh well, I am for pilot unions, just not a national seniority list. Look it is not going to happen anyway, unless you have a goverment run airline. I understand whoever started this thread is frustrated with our future as pilots, I share that view also. Our fellow pilots sold us out when they decided to stay past age 60. I don't call that unity. I say petiton your own carrier as individual companies. Anyway take a chill pill and enjoy a cold beverage. I want one too.

MD10PLT

When will we stand together?

The answer: Never.

Two principles at work here. Simple supply and demand. And everyone will always look out for themselves.

Don't believe me, just look at the over 60 crowd.

As long as there are more guys willing to do the job than available positions, the people with the money will always find a way to lower the pay. Until they reach the level where no one will continue to do it. Unions help to slow the pain, but ultimately the golden rule of money applies (he with the gold makes the rules).

If you really want to have negotiating power reduce the number of pilots available for the positions. The easiest way to do this is raise the standards to the point only well educated very intelligent people can meet the standard.

Try the military model. Start with highly educated people, followed by a selection process and then wash-out 10%-20% in training. That will raise the standards.

I'm not advocating the above, just stating the facts.

Kilgore Trout

What about Commercial Pilots who don't fly for regionals, 121 cargo, or major airlines? I know plenty of commercial pilots who don't ever intend to fly in something with more than one pilot seat. I believe I'm one of them in Alaska. My feelings on this are lately reinforced by reading about the crummy QOL that many of you have. I hope things get better for you. Unfortunately I believe that all American workers are now starting to pay the price for corporate greed, outsourcing of good American jobs, the lack of fair trade with the rest of the world, and a lot of other things that belong on a more political forum than this one. Everyone is hurting across the board. Maybe unions help nowadays, maybe they don't. I do not know. I do not believe that all new commercial pilots need, or should be required to have, a college degree (I do), or go through a training program with artificial washout rates installed. Or join a union. Demonstrated ability and meeting the requirements for the certificate should be the only qualifications and future requirements for a U.S. Commercial Airman's certificate.
As far as too many qualified pilot candidates for too few slots- that's true, you only have to read these forums to figure that out. The free market model, I think, would say that eventually, as the situation worsens, many possible candidates for a pilot seat will either give up or find a different career. I don't know if that's true for aviation. I do believe there's plenty of people who would do it for a crummy paycheck with poor QOL. Simply because they'd prefer to be a pilot rather than anything else.
I have to ask though, and I'm expecting major flames for this, why should any aviation company provide higher pay or QOL when they are cognizant of the fact that so many of it's current workers see the company only as a stepping stone, a place to gain experience and move on? Would you invest in a worker like that?

skidmark

Your correct, I envy you lifestyle. Sounds like alot of fun and the whole reason I got into aviation. Stay warm my friend.

1515greenlight

ALPA has become a social fraternity. Where you sit at the table and what you get are based on who you work for. The frat brothers sit up front and are catered to, while the pledges get what's left. Including the bill for the frat brothers food and drink.

Unfortunately it looks like ALPA has seen it's glory days fade. The new leadership, lost in it's inability to lead, now is praying that it's biggest carrier stays. And the biggest carrier, DAL, continues to believe in it's lifelong superiority complex that will eventually lead it away from ALPA or stay and force the smaller carriers out. Managements will rejoice. You think Lorenzo or Orenstein are bad? Wait for round 2.

One of ALPA's own senior staff said it best a few months back, when he said that with the new leader of the Airline Division of the IBT, that Teamsters would be better equipped than ALPA to properly represent airline pilots going forward.

He must know something since he worked with him. Some backround checking of the new guy at IBT indicates he has a pretty solid track record of taking care of his pilots.