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Old 10-25-2008, 10:24 AM   #1  
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Default The truth about LOA 19 finally surfaces

In reading the transcripts of Dave Stevens testimony, isn't it obvious now that we can put to bed one nasty episode in this whole merger soap opera. It seems pretty clear that, contrary to the official communications of the Northwest MEC, the Delta MEC tried repeatedly to get the Northwest pilots to engage in negotiations during LOA 19. They also tried to get the original deal for the Northwest pilots, only to be rebuffed by Delta management. Finally, once the Northwest MEC determined they were being left behind, they tried to scuttle the Delta deal.

So perhaps the Northwest pilots who repeatedly attacked Delta pilots, calling them scabs and back stabbers, could at least recognize that they were wrong, and that the purpose of Letter 19 was to get money for both Delta pilots and Northwest pilots, money that will soon show up in your paychecks.

Is it too much to ask for at least one person to say, sorry, I was wrong? Probably.
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Old 10-25-2008, 10:37 AM   #2  
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In reading the transcripts of Dave Stevens testimony, isn't it obvious now that we can put to bed one nasty episode in this whole merger soap opera. It seems pretty clear that, contrary to the official communications of the Northwest MEC, the Delta MEC tried repeatedly to get the Northwest pilots to engage in negotiations during LOA 19. They also tried to get the original deal for the Northwest pilots, only to be rebuffed by Delta management. Finally, once the Northwest MEC determined they were being left behind, they tried to scuttle the Delta deal.

So perhaps the Northwest pilots who repeatedly attacked Delta pilots, calling them scabs and back stabbers, could at least recognize that they were wrong, and that the purpose of Letter 19 was to get money for both Delta pilots and Northwest pilots, money that will soon show up in your paychecks.

Is it too much to ask for at least one person to say, sorry, I was wrong? Probably.
Would you mind posting the relevant portions of the transcripts that you think supports your thesis? Thanks.

Carl
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Old 10-25-2008, 11:57 AM   #3  
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Would you mind posting the relevant portions of the transcripts that you think supports your thesis? Thanks.

Carl
It's all there, Carl, on the October 21 transcripts. Start on p. 1218.
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Old 10-25-2008, 11:59 AM   #4  
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It's all there, Carl, on the October 21 transcripts. Start on p. 1218.
OK, I'll start reading.

Carl
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:31 PM   #5  
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Just got through reading it. I don't see how this testimony advances the discussion of what happened back then. The salient point that I recall from back then, was that we could have had a new JPWA if NWALPA agreed to the SLI proffered by DALPA. Our guys said no to that because (they claimed) the ratio method used by DALPA was extreme and put 500 NWA pilots at the bottom.

The testimony sheds no light on what Lee Moak was asking for in return for NWALPA rejoining talks for LOA 19. Did Lee call our guys and say: "We are negotiating a new LOA, join us?" If so, then why was previous negotiation stalled because of DALPA's insistence upon NWALPA accepting the DALPA SLI? Did Lee say: "We are negotiating a new LOA, you can join us in this if you'll just agree to our SLI proposal?" I don't know. The testimony sheds no light on this.

Does anyone else have any other transcript reference on what Lee was asking for (if anything)?

Carl
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:43 PM   #6  
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Just got through reading it. I don't see how this testimony advances the discussion of what happened back then. The salient point that I recall from back then, was that we could have had a new JPWA if NWALPA agreed to the SLI proffered by DALPA.
No Carl, that's not it.

Your MEC repeatedly said that LOA19 happened behind their backs, without any knowledge. Many of your own pilots got on these boards slamming Delta for negotiating behind their backs. For selling you out. Blah, Blah, Blah. THAT'S the salient point that was proven completely, 100% false.

I don't expect you to admit that you were lied to. Just don't try to change the subject.

PG
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:58 PM   #7  
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No Carl, that's not it.

Your MEC repeatedly said that LOA19 happened behind their backs, without any knowledge. Many of your own pilots got on these boards slamming Delta for negotiating behind their backs. For selling you out. Blah, Blah, Blah. THAT'S the salient point that was proven completely, 100% false.

I don't expect you to admit that you were lied to. Just don't try to change the subject.

PG
I remember our MEC saying that LOA 19 happened without any participation from NWALPA. I don't recall any MEC info stating they had no knowledge of it, just that they weren't involved.

If I'm wrong on that (and I could be due to the time that has passed), please post the MEC material that you remember stating what you've said.

And by the way, it's not changing the subject to ask what DALPA demanded for NWALPA to be re-engaged in the process. That would be the single most important part of those phone calls between Lee and Dave.

Carl
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:17 PM   #8  
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo View Post
In reading the transcripts of Dave Stevens testimony, isn't it obvious now that we can put to bed one nasty episode in this whole merger soap opera. It seems pretty clear that, contrary to the official communications of the Northwest MEC, the Delta MEC tried repeatedly to get the Northwest pilots to engage in negotiations during LOA 19. They also tried to get the original deal for the Northwest pilots, only to be rebuffed by Delta management. Finally, once the Northwest MEC determined they were being left behind, they tried to scuttle the Delta deal.

So perhaps the Northwest pilots who repeatedly attacked Delta pilots, calling them scabs and back stabbers, could at least recognize that they were wrong, and that the purpose of Letter 19 was to get money for both Delta pilots and Northwest pilots, money that will soon show up in your paychecks.

Is it too much to ask for at least one person to say, sorry, I was wrong? Probably.
The first part of your post that I have in bold font is total BS. Where is THAT in the transcript?

I was trying to find an old post of mine, but it's no longer in the search archive. It was when DALPA actually set the date for negotiations for the new JPWA. When that date was set, I said that I felt Lee Moak was a man of integrity. He had a huge hammer against NWALPA that he could have used, but he didn't. He said all along that he wouldn't use this "perceived" hammer and he didn't.

I never said thank you, but I did apologize for thinking that the worst case scenario might happen.

I also said that LOA 19, and the JPWA would never have happened without the merger with NWA, so I don't concede that we NWA pilots owe everything to DAL. We both owe our futures to each other.

Carl
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Old 10-25-2008, 02:01 PM   #9  
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Our guys said no to that because (they claimed) the ratio method used by DALPA was extreme and put 500 NWA pilots at the bottom.

Carl

Well, if there are 500 guys in the DC9 then 500 NWA guys should be on the bottom of the list.
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Old 10-25-2008, 02:05 PM   #10  
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Well, if there are 500 guys in the DC9 then 500 NWA guys should be on the bottom of the list.
Is that the same rationale behind AMR stapling pilots from the companies with whom they merge?

Carl
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