Well I guess their are good companies and bad ones. The point is their are no unions and pay is pretty much based of the aircraft you fly. I am guessing you had a bad experience.

 

No actually I had a great experience. Still on a first name basis with the CEO and think a lot of him and how he treats his people. Flew with some great people and throughly enjoyed it. Pay at many operations is not always based on what the equipment, sometimes it's based on if someone comes in and offers to do it for less. Or is willing to be a "yes" person.

I have seem guys canned for not going when the boss didn't care about the weather or equipment problems. And great jobs and whole flight departments vaporize overnight based on the companies quarterly report or boardroom battles. Based on your reply, it sounds like you either have no airline or union experience and are more interested in what's in it for you.

 

Local 1108 Executive Board makes change to Union message board rules... Last week the Executive Board decided to extend message board posting privileges only to Members in Good Standing (MIGS). The Board decided to take this issue under consideration after members of the Board received numerous phone calls from Members, who were overwhelmingly of the opinion that the privilege of posting and sharing opinions on the Union’s message board should only be extended to those pilots who have supported their Union financially. After discussing the issue, the Executive Board voted unanimously last Tuesday to extend message board posting privileges only to MIGS and furloughed pilots who were MIGS at the time of their furlough. Beginning today non-M.I.G.S. will have read only access. Said 1108 President Mat Slinghoff, “I don’t think its appropriate, as we enter the final stages of this collective bargaining process, to accommodate those pilots who have chosen to free-ride on the backs of every Member in Good Standing with our Union. This action was taken because our members demanded it and I was proud to vote in favor.”


This is why i don't like unions they want yes men. If you do not conform to their liking they silence your voice.

Some congress men are doing the same thing video town hall meeting scripted questions on health care reform so they don't have to face the opposer. Which questions will they choose to answer.

 

Figure out what is wrong with this ALPA "plan" and I will tell you what is wrong with unions:

ALPA continues to push Congress for appropriate protections against oil speculation. The association also continues to keep a watchful eye on any movement regarding this topic, which has caused aviation–and other energy-intensive industries–disproportional economic hardships due to the actions of financial agents who bought large quantities of unregulated oil futures contracts.
On Wednesday, the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) held its final hearing to examine energy-market speculation. Most witnesses at the hearing agreed that speculation played a significant role in the oil-price spike last summer, resulting in a financial drain on many sectors of the economy and losses for airlines. This spike also contributed significantly to pilot furloughs. The most telling testimony came from a representative of the U.S. Commodity Funds, an organization that helps drive oil speculation. “I don’t care if the price of oil is $100 or $50,” he said.
ALPA’s Government Affairs Department has actively engaged Congress, and the Association is planning a “Call-to-Action” campaign in September when Congress returns. Please participate and voice your opinion about this crucial concern. We will provide details when available via the FastRead and the website.

 

No, it sounds like you don't like unions because you feel you are entitled to a "free ride" for some reason. Not sure who "Local 1108" is, but let's be honest here. The pilots who ARE paying their dues and are in good standing are the ones who are PAYING the costs of the negotiators, legal help and whatever else, to get a good contract for everyone...including those who are NOT PAYING their fair share.

And for some reason, you feel that someone who is not contributing to the success should be entitled to enjoy the same benefits for free. There's a word for that...."freeloader."

Since the begining of this industry, men and women have fought and some have died in crashes to make it better for those that came after them. Your opinion and belief that you are entitled to live off the fruits of their labor and those at an airline where others are doing the heavy lifting while you sit on the sidelines, don't contribute and gripe about not having more freebies it is pretty pathetic.

 

Well when people vote in a union that claims to not need dues until they get a first contract. Then they change the bylaws after they are voted in to require dues. Then they call pilots freeloaders who choose not to pay. Their is no union protection, wages or anything else that usually comes with dues paying pilots. I am still a at will employee that has no union protection but the union wants my money even though they have not gotten the pilot group anything after three years of negotiating. When this started i was in the middle about unions, i didn't really know to much about them, now i don't really want anything to do with them. But i am sure i will have to work at union companies due to the fact that so many flying jobs are unionized. You sound just like the union guys at my company. I think they divided the pilots in the middle and they are so arrogant they think they don't need them. Time will tell.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this subject.

 

I don't like alpa because the national leadership gave the ok to local MEC's outsourcing half of the domestic flying to c-scale operations. This in order to save the asses and retirements of those in power. I am now furloughed because express is growing, while mainline shrinks.
I don't blame this so much on management, but on alpa, which should be looking out for us and the profession as a whole.
Half of those now at express carriers will never go to a so-called legacy carrier, where the pay and conditions is supposed to be better....well maybe it used to be...

 

We don't have to disagree. I'd like to know what union it is. And what airline. As with most things in life, there is usually more to the picture.

I don't think unions do everything right. But it's a lot easier to figure out what's wrong with more information.

 

Your best flying jobs in this country are not FedEx,UPS, or any of the legacies. They are the elite corporations that have their own flight departments. My job is not only a pilot, but I have to entertain customers on hunting and fishings trips and yes, I have to load bags. However, it pays more than any of the above and more importantly, it is a MUCH better lifestyle. I flew for one commuter and one legacy for 9 yrs. and would only return as a last resort.
The point here is that I don't believe the majority of the strong union personality types would ever get a position like this and therefore rely on aggregation for thier security. They receive solace in numbers. Look at the guys you work with that are not strong union promoters and you will find a more polished and confident person. This is what I've experienced in my career and I was once ALPA.

 

Here is a very simple way of understanding our predicament in being labor.

Which came first? The pilot willing to fly for food? Or the high pay? It's a paradox.

My feeling is that the airline industry here in the states, is and was doomed from the moment it was conceived. Prior to deregulation all was well, but even the gov realized that there is no money in the airlines. Then soon after, management realized a very curious phenomenon. As you lower the pay, the pilots still show up for work. No union is going to be able to do anything about that, it's like a law of physics. We are our own worst enemy. But this thread is about unions, unions are good because they delay the inevitable by decades. They've done a pretty good job of that. With no unions things would be much worse. If only management could pay you min wage with 18 hour duty days, they would in a heart beat because we are labor(numbers).