Originally Posted by PCL_128 (Post 1184690)

He is a former MEC officer from Atlas.

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1183460)

....Omni just came up substantially.....

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1184746)

See where some of your guys filed a DFR over your SLI integration with SWA. Sure hope that this time the Herndon guys did a better job of destroying the hard drives and wiping the email files than they did with TWA. Or maybe they didn't.:rolleyes:

How's the drive to convince SWAPA pilots that they don't have a "real" union and should join ALPA?

Originally Posted by Gunter (Post 1184847)

Often it's inappropriate credit the success or blame failure on the union. The personality of the pilot group very often comes into play. Not to mention the quality of the business model or management team.

Originally Posted by gunter (Post 1184847)

i don't care how much experience you have working on this stuff, you've clearly lost it. We all get you're very po'd at alpa. Really.

In house unions are easier to manage than a national union. But it's also easier for nefarious characters to totally infiltrate an in house union. Either of those don't really compare to the ibt.

Defending the ibt is really gutsy considering their track record over the last 10-20 years. They've been kicked off of a lot properties for just cause. Too bad you don't feel the need to look back that far. Smart comments aren't going convince us to ignore their checkered past.

In short, there's a lot of warts to go around. Often it's inappropriate credit the success or blame failure on the union. The personality of the pilot group very often comes into play. Not to mention the quality of the business model or management team.

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1184746)

Welcome back! Wondering why you were so silent lately. Guess Bruce has been too busy screwing up the TWA discussions to write your copy.

Originally Posted by Gunter (Post 1184847)

I don't care how much experience you have working on this stuff, you've clearly lost it. We all get you're very PO'd at ALPA. Really.

In house unions are easier to manage than a national union. But it's also easier for nefarious characters to totally infiltrate an in house union. Either of those don't really compare to the IBT.

Defending the IBT is really gutsy considering their track record over the last 10-20 years. They've been kicked off of a lot properties for just cause. Too bad you don't feel the need to look back that far. Smart comments aren't going convince us to ignore their checkered past.

In short, there's a lot of warts to go around. Often it's inappropriate credit the success or blame failure on the union. The personality of the pilot group very often comes into play. Not to mention the quality of the business model or management team.

Originally Posted by PCL_128 (Post 1185169)

I don't come around here too much. This place makes FI look like a civil discussion.

As for Bruce, the Director of Representation has nothing to do with handling litigation. That's what the Legal Department is for. Yet more proof that despite your claims to the contrary, you really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to ALPA.

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1184212)

IBT "stabbed" Trans States in the back? You spend too much time listening to York. Ask them to tell you about Prater's visit to management when he begged them to kill off the GoJets pilots and give Trans States the flying.

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1184212)

I seem to recall a few UAL furloughees flew there as well...interesting how ALPA folks freely tossed the "scab" word around at an airline that had their own contract and work rules.

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1184212)

In essence, what you are saying that unless ANY new airline starts at anything below industry wages, they are back stabbers. Hmmm...when was the last time your group stood up and said "pay our FFD's industry leading rates or we'll shut down?"

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1184212)

While the rest of the airline unions were standing up to keep the minimum experience requirements high, ALPA was siding with ATA, aviation universities and the industry in favor of lowering them. FAA stood back because they figured that even if CAPA, IBT and others came out for the higher numbers, if ALPA came out with the lower recommendations, they'd have the cover of saying, "well, ALPA says it's OK, so...." IBT, CAPA, APA, IPA, UPS, SWAPA and others spent lots more time and effort on the issue.

Now, assuming you are correct and ALPA did all the heavy lifting on FTDT...and I disagree...explain for us all how the long standing mantra "One Level of Safety" became..."Well, for everyone but Cargo and the guys who fly our troops...because they aren't real pilots and don't need the same rest." Everyone else fought...where was ALPA's outrage? Not until FedEx raised cain and talked decert, did ALPA move. And then it was with a joke of a meeting in New Orleans. Moak never intended it to be anything but something to wave at them to say, "Look! We had a MEETING."

ALPA became the joke and the point of anger for every friend that pilots have on the Hill on this one. They were seen as an absolute joke compared to what it was in the past. Prater was seen from Day 1 as a buffoon in a suit who liked to glad hand and give neckrubs to the NTSB Administrator (nice)...while he was looking for his next job as a lobbyist in DC. Lee, sadly isn't seen much better.

Those aren't my opinions. Those are the opinions of staffers, Congressmen, Senators and lobbyists. They invite ALPA as window dressing, but consider it a paper tiger.

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1184212)

Maybe you should be asking your leadership this. Why has ALPA given each of the top four carriers an individual office on the 8th floor at Mass. Avenue and full FPL so they can go lobby the Hill? Is it because they can't do the job...or because they are so scared that a decert by any of them would collapse the house?

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat (Post 1184212)

No one wants to see ALPA fail, me especially. There are too many good people there who really care about pilots. But unless ALPA pulls their head out of the sand and deals with the real, systemic flaws that they keep glossing over...they can't survive as a viable voice.

As far as them not showing you anything...I'd challenge you to pick up the phone and call their Division Director and talk directly to him. Don't worry...he talks "pilot"...as they say, "he are one." I'd bet you a paycheck he'll take your call and talk to you at length. You could talk to his Assistant Director...who was a senior Contract Administrator who was one of the six illegally fired by ALPA and won their jobs back (yeah, that one cost ALPA $$ too when they were found guilty and they had to post the award on the doors). Or their senior negotiator...a guy named Dubinsky.

Make the call…but don’t worry about the bet. I don’t want you losing the paycheck.