tomgoodman

In some cases, the striking union might approve of other companies carrying the passengers and keeping all the revenue. It could put more pressure on Management if they see that they are losing customers to competitors than if everybody shuts down.

GogglesPisano

If they were generating revenue for the struck carrier, that would be flying struck work.

GogglesPisano

Okay. Let's say a small Beech 1900 operator in ATL goes on strike. Does that shut the entire airport down?

toiletpaper

Fair enough. Now when ALPA pilots crossed the flight engineer's picket line at Eastern, they were certainly generating revenue for the struck carrier. Following your logic above, they are indeed scabs.

GogglesPisano

Not according to ALPA. Let's agree to disagree.

toiletpaper

But we can't have it both ways.

If generating revenue for the struck carrier is, by definition, flying struck work, then the people engaged in such, are by definition
scabs indeed. Particularly when employed by the same carrier.

Or are we then to believe, that ALPA is the sole and final arbiter of what constitute strike breaking, and they can alter that definition to fit their convenience at any time ?

By the way, not a dog in this fight. Couldn't care less who is a scab and who is not. Just trying to clarify, what I thought are contradicting statements.

But you're right. Let's agree to disagree. Have a good day Sir.

NEDude

If American were to go on strike, I do believe United or Delta could come in and take that flying without any issues as they are not doing any flying that would benefit American management.

The issue I am thinking of goes more like this - Skywest finally decides to go union and votes in Teamsters. After drawn out and unsuccessful attempts to negotiate a contact the Skywest pilots, represented by Teamsters, go on strike. ALPA then decides it is okay for ExpressJet (a subsidiary of Skywest represented by ALPA pilots) to go ahead and take over some or all of the Skywest flying in an attempt to weaken the Teamsters union. Skywest management gets the benefit of having another of their subsidiaries take over the flying and thus lessen the pressure of the strike. In the eyes of ALPA the Expressjet pilots would not be scabs, but in the eyes of Teamsters they would be. Who wins out? Are the Expressjet pilots scabs or not?

Again, an unlikely scenario, but interesting to ponder.

Airbum

I haven't read all of this thread so forgive me if I am repeating what others have said.

TP, It would seem to me that if ALPA pilots performed the job of a Flight engineer for Eastern then that would be doing struck work. If the ALPA Eastern pilot performed a job ( like being a pilot not a flight engineer ) then that would not be performing struck work.

Haven't there been times when say the Flight Attendants went on strike but the pilots did not. The pilots flying the plane did not scab unless they became Flight Attendants.

Some unions go so far as to not cross other union's legal picket lines. This is to show support and not necessarily out of concern for becoming a scab.

syd111

Unlikely since none of the airlines have excess aircraft to just come in and take the others flying.

That being said unless we would have a national shut down of service a simple strike by one or the others will not get much done.

B727DRVR

Hey RJL,

Respectfully, I really don't understand what you are questioning... If you cross a picket line and fly equipment, callsign, or flight number for an airline that has a striking pilot group, you are without question, a scab. If your country is invaded and you help or assist the enemy, then you are a collaborator or even a traitor.

Scabbing has nothing to do with Christianity, Judiasm, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, etc, or even athiesm. You have good and scumbag members of all these religions... Scabbing comes from selfishness and a "me first, screw everbody else" mentality.

In nearly every case (aside from the above mentioned stupidity from green card pilots who didn't know better), someone who scabs intends to get ahead of another by "pushing the striker and their family out of the lifeboat" so that the scab may benefit, regardless of the cost to the worker making a stand. This isn't even really a conservative or liberal issue, because Trade Unionism IS the American Way and the Right to organize is something that most American workers have... Rush, Hannity, O'Reily are ALL union members. CEO's have one of the most powerful unions of all, their B.O.D. Lawyers have the BAR, Doctors have the AMA. And of course, politicians who vote in pay raises for themselves and get the best health care, but want NO minimum wage and fight health care for those they represent, have the best union of all.. Themselves. And the Airlines themselves even have their own union, Airlines for America (formerly the Air Transport Association, or ATA), which fights anything, including safety, that affects their bottom line.

What you got from the AMERICAN labor union movement is the much beloved: end of indentured servitude, end of forced child labor, paid vacation, paid sick time, workplace safety, 40 hour work week, the American Middle Class, and too many other things to mention. Remember, prior to trade unions, America was a third world Bangladesh-like low cost labor country with ridiculous disparity between the classes. Our Forefathers fought the Robber Barrons, who owned 99% of the Nations wealth to help create the American Middle class. They, in turn with the GI Bill, helped educate millions and paid for their children's educations with good-paying union jobs. How about FMLA? Guess who fought for that? Certainly no the scabs... You're welcome....

What pilot union representation has gotten you is the safest aviation industry in the world. Pilot unions fought for our safety and paid for it with their blood. Most of the regulations we have were again, paid for with blood. Like the NASA form? Like TCASII? The airlines cost benefit analysts determined that it was too expensive, and that it would be better for the bottom line to just pay the claims after the mid-air collision. FFDO, CRM, fixed distance markers, standard airport markings, lightings, etc., ARTCC, TAWS, GPWS, standard instrument panels, Terminal Doppler radar, cockpit wx radar, etc. are some of the many things that pilot unions fought for years to get. You are safer, not because of the good wills of the Robber Barrons or various airline management teams over the years, but because of the many pilot unions that fought to make things safer DESPITE THE COST. Again, you're welcome.

Yes, we are all dealing with the "new" economy of post September 11, but that doesn't allow us to scab for an airline and push wages and working conditions down. That is being a scab, or better yet a traitor to ones profession.