C11 Vice Chair
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 140
C11 Vice Chair
AW should lead our NC when we go back to the table. Here is her latest email.
“”Adding the Sprinkles to a Stale Donut
(Tumi TA Triage)
After the American Airlines offer to their pilots was released last week, our Master Executive Council (MEC) unanimously agreed to place the Tumi TA Roadshows on pause until we could meet to determine our next steps. As was stated in the letter on July 2nd from the MEC Chair, one possible next step was to pull down the TA ballot. Stopping the vote in the middle of membership ratification meant we would never see the ballot results. Interestingly, there is no language in our policy manual, admin manual, or ALPA Constitution and Bylaws permitting the withdrawal of a TA that has already been sent out for membership ratification. However, pulling down a ballot is not unprecedented, as two ballots were previously withdrawn on this property during the post-9/11 era: one after the denial of government loans and the second when United Airlines declared bankruptcy. Those were dark times for our members, as we suffered concession after concession. Thankfully, we face a very different landscape today. I strongly supported leaving the ballot open, as I believe the Company needs to hear directly from our members that this TA is not worthy of our acceptance. We need to communicate that sentiment through an overwhelming NO VOTE. Without a substantial and compelling reason to pull down the ballot, the MEC unanimously agreed to leave it open and leave the closing date for voting unchanged.
While outspoken NO voters were initially dismissed as merely a vocal minority, a system-wide groundswell of deep dissatisfaction and even anger with this substandard TA points to its likely failure. As is clear from conversations with our MEC Chair and Negotiating Committee, they continue to endorse this deal. When they repeatedly say theycan’t get any more from the Company, I believe them. Fine gents all, they have brought us this far and have done all they can do. We cannot send them back into the room with the Company. We must guard against any last-minute, haphazard attempts to save this deal. Redlining a few of the most egregious paragraphs in an attempt to achieve a vote of “50% plus one” would be a disaster for us all. It would split our membership into two factions and we would all be saddled with an unpalatable contract. We are in the middle of membership ratification. The time for negotiating on this TA is over. We cannot allow the Company to add sprinkles to the stale donut and pass it back across the table to us.
As we enter the last days of voting on this TA, I expect the Company will follow the typical time-tested anti-labor campaign of fear, uncertainty, and doubt: “pass this TA or else!” Well-placed stories from upper management may appear in the media and you will be the target audience. I expect to hear dire prognostications: delays and cancellations of jet orders, stalls in Captain upgrades, slowdowns in hiring, lackluster economic forecasts, and even the death of the “United Next” plan itself. Don’t be fooled by their time-worn tactics.
To those still on the fence regarding the Tumi TA: the vote at the MEC table was 15-4 to send this deal out for membership ratification, And yet, just three days later, not one of the MEC’s YES voters would put their signature at the bottom of the PRO letter. There are ZERO signatories. This is shocking. In my three decades of union membership, I have never seen a letter go out unsigned. The closing of the PRO letter says, “we recommend you vote YES”. Who is “we”? Who wrote this letter? Mr. Kirby and his C-suite pals? In contrast, the MEC’s four NO voters, and a non-voting Secretary-Treasurer, all signed our CON letter and were proud to do so.
Many of the MEC YES voters continue to voice their support of the Tumi TA despite their unwillingness to sign their own PRO letter. Faced with overwhelming disapproval from their local councils, they may try to walk back their support with statements such as, “I was not a big fan of the TA, but I thought the membership should have a chance to look at it and decide for themselves”. Don’t be fooled. Many were clapping and cheering when the negotiators finished briefing us on this TA. They were all in and remain so.
If the Tumi TA is rejected, our first order of business will be to send a survey out to the members. It has been over five years since our last survey, and we have thousands of new members hired since then. It is clear the MEC and NC were wildly out of touch with what our members wanted in an agreement. We need to hear from all of you before moving forward. Full disclosure: rejecting this TA will likely mean no Tumi bag for you.””
“”Adding the Sprinkles to a Stale Donut
(Tumi TA Triage)
After the American Airlines offer to their pilots was released last week, our Master Executive Council (MEC) unanimously agreed to place the Tumi TA Roadshows on pause until we could meet to determine our next steps. As was stated in the letter on July 2nd from the MEC Chair, one possible next step was to pull down the TA ballot. Stopping the vote in the middle of membership ratification meant we would never see the ballot results. Interestingly, there is no language in our policy manual, admin manual, or ALPA Constitution and Bylaws permitting the withdrawal of a TA that has already been sent out for membership ratification. However, pulling down a ballot is not unprecedented, as two ballots were previously withdrawn on this property during the post-9/11 era: one after the denial of government loans and the second when United Airlines declared bankruptcy. Those were dark times for our members, as we suffered concession after concession. Thankfully, we face a very different landscape today. I strongly supported leaving the ballot open, as I believe the Company needs to hear directly from our members that this TA is not worthy of our acceptance. We need to communicate that sentiment through an overwhelming NO VOTE. Without a substantial and compelling reason to pull down the ballot, the MEC unanimously agreed to leave it open and leave the closing date for voting unchanged.
While outspoken NO voters were initially dismissed as merely a vocal minority, a system-wide groundswell of deep dissatisfaction and even anger with this substandard TA points to its likely failure. As is clear from conversations with our MEC Chair and Negotiating Committee, they continue to endorse this deal. When they repeatedly say theycan’t get any more from the Company, I believe them. Fine gents all, they have brought us this far and have done all they can do. We cannot send them back into the room with the Company. We must guard against any last-minute, haphazard attempts to save this deal. Redlining a few of the most egregious paragraphs in an attempt to achieve a vote of “50% plus one” would be a disaster for us all. It would split our membership into two factions and we would all be saddled with an unpalatable contract. We are in the middle of membership ratification. The time for negotiating on this TA is over. We cannot allow the Company to add sprinkles to the stale donut and pass it back across the table to us.
As we enter the last days of voting on this TA, I expect the Company will follow the typical time-tested anti-labor campaign of fear, uncertainty, and doubt: “pass this TA or else!” Well-placed stories from upper management may appear in the media and you will be the target audience. I expect to hear dire prognostications: delays and cancellations of jet orders, stalls in Captain upgrades, slowdowns in hiring, lackluster economic forecasts, and even the death of the “United Next” plan itself. Don’t be fooled by their time-worn tactics.
To those still on the fence regarding the Tumi TA: the vote at the MEC table was 15-4 to send this deal out for membership ratification, And yet, just three days later, not one of the MEC’s YES voters would put their signature at the bottom of the PRO letter. There are ZERO signatories. This is shocking. In my three decades of union membership, I have never seen a letter go out unsigned. The closing of the PRO letter says, “we recommend you vote YES”. Who is “we”? Who wrote this letter? Mr. Kirby and his C-suite pals? In contrast, the MEC’s four NO voters, and a non-voting Secretary-Treasurer, all signed our CON letter and were proud to do so.
Many of the MEC YES voters continue to voice their support of the Tumi TA despite their unwillingness to sign their own PRO letter. Faced with overwhelming disapproval from their local councils, they may try to walk back their support with statements such as, “I was not a big fan of the TA, but I thought the membership should have a chance to look at it and decide for themselves”. Don’t be fooled. Many were clapping and cheering when the negotiators finished briefing us on this TA. They were all in and remain so.
If the Tumi TA is rejected, our first order of business will be to send a survey out to the members. It has been over five years since our last survey, and we have thousands of new members hired since then. It is clear the MEC and NC were wildly out of touch with what our members wanted in an agreement. We need to hear from all of you before moving forward. Full disclosure: rejecting this TA will likely mean no Tumi bag for you.””
#4
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 1
Very unprofessional C11 comm
The rhetoric and comm style that the VC of C11 has chosen to use on this comm is very unprofessional. Sitting reps must be held to a higher standard. Branding or tagging the TA? ALPA members deserve better. I think she needs to take the afternoon off and read the ALPA code of ethics.
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 26
The rhetoric and comm style that the VC of C11 has chosen to use on this comm is very unprofessional. Sitting reps must be held to a higher standard. Branding or tagging the TA? ALPA members deserve better. I think she needs to take the afternoon off and read the ALPA code of ethics.
I see why you made a burner account to make that statement.
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 96
The rhetoric and comm style that the VC of C11 has chosen to use on this comm is very unprofessional. Sitting reps must be held to a higher standard. Branding or tagging the TA? ALPA members deserve better. I think she needs to take the afternoon off and read the ALPA code of ethics.
Couldn't agree more. Its easy to throw some taglines in there and sling insults to gain a standing ovation, but what really was the real purpose of that comm. Seems obvious to me...
#7
The rhetoric and comm style that the VC of C11 has chosen to use on this comm is very unprofessional. Sitting reps must be held to a higher standard. Branding or tagging the TA? ALPA members deserve better. I think she needs to take the afternoon off and read the ALPA code of ethics.
Alpa seems to have forgotten whom they represent. I kept hear at the LEC meeting this week “Well we put that in because Scott wanted it” or “This is what management wanted.” ALPA does not represent Scott or management. THEY REPRESENT THE PILOT GROUP! Apparently that’s been lost on the current MEC.
#8
Well, like mytime2025 and alettaocean, the selfless dissent has now turned into, “I’ll be happy to lead your cause.”
Nothing wrong with that, but it certainly can cause motives to come in to question. Many of the most vocal anti-Insler-ites care more about their political prospects than the pilot group.
In that vain, Im not sure the wisdom of prophesizing that Kirby will use fear mongering toward the end of the vote. The hallmark of the Oscar-era management team is employee engagement and he knows that he needs buy-in for his world domination. I don’t want a general fighting past wars when our current landscape is quite different. I would be extremely surprised if management take an adversarial approach and burn down the pro-employee narrative they’ve spent million (if not billions when you consider all the successful labor contracts in the last 5 years) cultivating.
What management will likely say, if they’re smart, is that they’re happy to rearrange the money on the table, so let your union reps know what you want so that we can get it in your proverbial pockets. I think they’ll happily add some money to the pot, but they’re going to use the union as a buffer against the pilot group. It’s SkyWest labor management 101
Nothing wrong with that, but it certainly can cause motives to come in to question. Many of the most vocal anti-Insler-ites care more about their political prospects than the pilot group.
In that vain, Im not sure the wisdom of prophesizing that Kirby will use fear mongering toward the end of the vote. The hallmark of the Oscar-era management team is employee engagement and he knows that he needs buy-in for his world domination. I don’t want a general fighting past wars when our current landscape is quite different. I would be extremely surprised if management take an adversarial approach and burn down the pro-employee narrative they’ve spent million (if not billions when you consider all the successful labor contracts in the last 5 years) cultivating.
What management will likely say, if they’re smart, is that they’re happy to rearrange the money on the table, so let your union reps know what you want so that we can get it in your proverbial pockets. I think they’ll happily add some money to the pot, but they’re going to use the union as a buffer against the pilot group. It’s SkyWest labor management 101
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
The rhetoric and comm style that the VC of C11 has chosen to use on this comm is very unprofessional. Sitting reps must be held to a higher standard. Branding or tagging the TA? ALPA members deserve better. I think she needs to take the afternoon off and read the ALPA code of ethics.
Reps are protected and can say anything they choose.
You need to point your other 3 diners at your yes voting reps who were too cowardly to sign their pro letter and own it.
Inflation doesn’t matter???
Go buy some gas for $1.19 or a house in any United base.
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 96
What? Shame on her for telling the truth!
Reps are protected and can say anything they choose.
You need to point your other 3 diners at your yes voting reps who were too cowardly to sign their pro letter and own it.
Inflation doesn’t matter???
Go buy some gas for $1.19 or a house in any United base.
Reps are protected and can say anything they choose.
You need to point your other 3 diners at your yes voting reps who were too cowardly to sign their pro letter and own it.
Inflation doesn’t matter???
Go buy some gas for $1.19 or a house in any United base.
I am sure the C11 pilots elected someone to act professionally and debate the merits of a TA, not be a memelord.
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