TA1 voting closes November 1 at 1000ET.
 

Just a friendly reminder that voting is still open on TA1. Please remember to cast your NO vote before the window closes at 1000ET on Nov. 1st.

Access to the voting site isn't easy to find on the ALPA website, the link below will take you there.

https://www3.alpa.org/Default.aspx?tabid=6263

lol TA2 is going to be announced very soon.

Really? If you know that you must know what is in it. Care to share the details with us?

Wow, that was insightful.

This union and pilot group will come unglued if there isn't an TA2 announced in the next 2 weeks. I don't mean that in a good way.

Why do you say that? The chances of the company offering enough even to get it through the UAL MEC is pretty slim IMO, and I think most pilots agree.

There would have to be an AIP and then that would lead to contract language getting drafted and that would formalize a TA. There is a defined period of time (7 days) for the MEC to review according to the policy manual...but we know that is more of a "suggestion manual" because it isn't required. Then the talking heads (NC, legal counsel, SMEs etc) need to come up with a sales plan and huge stack of power point presentations assuming the MEC approves the TA.

There are 10 business days left for before the vote on the Tumi TA fails. Let the damn thing die...and then set realistic expectations that we aren't getting a contract anytime soon. It will be to the company's advantage to drag them out until we are deeper into a recession and then they have the leverage either in mediation or worst case - arbitration. Right now we have record sales and a TK staffing problem...we have the leverage but we can't force a timeline. It's very easy for the company to slow roll United Next until they have a better negotiating environment. Recession will lead to concessions and a longer term contract to be stuck with them...I would place bets on TA2024.

I too think that the chances of getting a TA2 by Nov. 1st are very slim. We need an overwhelmingly strong NO vote on TA1 with very high participation -- this is how we can most directly demonstrate our unity to the company. For anyone who was a fence-sitter or just waiting to cast their vote until the TA1 roadshows were done (and then cancelled), don't wait to vote until October 31st when the inevitable announcement comes that no deal has been reached.

Now is the time to cast your NO vote for TA1.

Quite the opposite. I don’t know of any pilot who thinks that we’ll have something acceptable in 2 weeks.

Sure that’s certainly possible. But if the company plays the slow roll/let’s hope for a recession game in order to attempt to negotiate a sub par UPA, then “United Next” is dead. Kirby can’t pull it off if pilots aren’t supporting his initiatives. So I guess the question is, how bad does he want it?

Like it or not, the bar has now been set by Alaskan.

12th yr 73/Guppy Capt- $306 (TODAY)
5:15 ADG
Sick leave accrual still higher than us (5:30 per month)
Vacation credit higher (3:45)
Known Holidays... with pay
Schedules out by the 12th!

But here is the real kicker-
Reserve first day moved to 1400! Yes, with a new reserve PBS implementation it can go back to 1100-1300.. but WOW.

Like I said, the bar is now set. Someone had to be first and they were it.
Now lets see what our NC and the company feel we are worth.

Always
Motch

That **** is horrible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To you and me.. maybe. But it's obvious that for THEIR Pilot Group, they found it acceptable.
Again, not saying I agree with it or not. But the bar is now moved from their end and that, along with whatever happened between the DALALPA & Management offers last week make our company's initial offer a REAL JOKE.. not just a one off.

Again, just looking at Average Pay per Day.. they are now equal to American and Delta. We lack..

Motch

So is our MEC taking note and seriously working with management orrr….are they going to fire from the hip again with TA2 and hope for the best?

Any TA now most likely POS (hope I’m wrong). We need all recalls at DEN, LAX, SFO and IAH to proceed. Once they do new MEC, recall MEC Officers, NC and all Insler hangers on. It will take time. Like DAL hopefully a much superior contract in 9 months or longer. It will take time.

This will all be over very soon. TA by nov 1 with pilot vote completed by mid November

Had a friend fly with the MEC vice chair into Vegas last week. He said they were expecting a response from the company before November 1. Smoke and mirrors probably?

The company will definitely respond, but that is far from an acceptable offer or TA.

Mostly smoke.

If it were me running the show on the other side of the table, I'd have everything ready to go except for rates and just wait for the Alaska TA to close and pass. Now that that's happened, just fill in a couple of small housekeeping items and send it out. Makes sense to me at least.

As posted in other threads, anything offered after October 25th, leaves no time under he MEC policy (7 day MEC review) for a TA to be considered and sent to membership.

The question is: will the MEC be true to it's word and close/publish the TA1 vote results on November 1st? Or maybe the better question is: how much worse could they bungle this?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they just need an AIP before NOV 1st to Stop the vote on POS 1

I really don’t see the big deal in letting the TA 1 vote close (on either side). It was likely to fail before, but it’s practically certain to fail now. Everyone knows that so it’s baked in. If the TA vote closes at 90% against on NOV 1, what’s to stop a new TA being agreed to on NOV 2, or 10, or 30?

They wanted to postpone the vote to avoid the embarrassment of a large NO vote, but that result is clearly expected now, so it really wouldn’t be big news.

You make a good point. I had assumed that it would have to be a TA. But then looking back through all of the union communications regarding the voting extension, the language they use consistently says that "an agreement" has to be reached by November 1. I can see where they could claim that an AIP constitutes an agreement (though that's BS IMHO). I still don't have a lot of confidence that it will be done but that's interesting food for thought.

Need massive overhaul of reserve rules, LTD (with DC!), sick accrual, and basic things like selling back S/L. Gonna take more than a few weeks to get that done IMO. But I’m a new guy still learning the UPA

you forgot the most important part, they got a snap up.

Exactly.

“Snap up” clause: average of the following top of scale Captain rates: United (737-MAX 8/9), American (Group II), Delta (737-900), Southwest, and JetBlue (A320/321).

It would be most prudent to delay closing the TA1 vote until June 2023 or later, to give us more time to negotiate TA2. Let's not throw out the bird in the hand when the bag limit is 2. It may be good to have that to fall back on later.

DOS 30% with full retro for 2019 and 2022
5% every year there after till next contract with me too clause tell your boss
otherwise a fat NO

Not happening. That kind of hardline thought will take us nowhere, which is why we need TA1 to remain in fallback position. If this thing drags out for two or three years you're going to wish you took that 9% today, but better late than never.

Fadec

Cant speak for anyone but me. 25 years here and 5.5 to go. I’ll gladly ride the UPA into my sunset before I vote in favor of anything close to resembling TA1.

Alaska is the starting point , no need to have anything as a back up. 5% coming our way soon one way or another.

Tell me you voted yes on the Tumi turd without telling me you voted yes.

Just over 7 to go and feel the exact same way. I’ll keep the work rules and live without the 9% before taxes if that’s what comes.

Insler defeated for ALPA national. Can the Tumi TA just die already, or do we need an autopsy to tell us what we already know?

While I agree with your sentiment…

Consider this scenario…

after all this BS on TA1, the economy still sux and stock portfolios are in the gutter and many people don’t have any cash for a down payment on a house.

What if they were to let TA1 close and it passes by 50.1%

I think this is a very far fetched scenario, but take into account that UAL ALPA has never voted down a TA. (This is what I’ve been told, correct me if I’m wrong)

While I would be willing to take those odds and I believe it will get shot down with a +90% no vote, consider the politics here.

If UAL ALPA gambles AND allows the minute chance that it will pass, what would happen if it did?

ALPA would be decertified and gone IMO if it passed. Do u think ALPA notational will allow UAL ALPA to effectively go “All in” on a no vote for TA1? I don’t. In July I was confident it would get voted down. Now that we are further down the rabbit hole, I still think we are a hard no, but there’s definitely some uncertainty and doubt that could screw us up. This is probably why they didn’t let TA1 close in July.

Therefore…it stands to reason with the politicians in charge, expect another extension of the vote until the end of Nov or early Dec.

The vote will not close on for TA1 or TA2 on Nov 1st.

TA1 doesn’t stand a chance of passing, but if it did, United pilots would decertify their religion before they decertify ALPA. If it passed, the flushing of the turd reps would intensify, attracting new pilots would take a hit due to even worse work rules, and United next would be put on hold while the training center collapses. Instructors would leave TK, LCA’s would quit, and those that stayed would only be signing students off at the end of trips to ensure that they get paid. I suspect that Kirby wants TA1 to go away even more than we do. Let November 1 come and go, put TA1 behind us, and focus on the new deal.

TA1 will close on 1Nov.

IMHO, either:

A) 55% pass type TA2 AIP done by Nov. 1st and TA1 doesn’t close.

or

B) Enough progress made on TA2 that they push TA1 date another 30 days.

Deadlines spur action. Neither side wants TA1 vote results to see light of day.

Any deal that could be reached by 1 Dec could've been reached by 1 Nov.