Chowdah

I suppose it is possible that some people are gambling on future raises when they apply to be an LCA or PI, but I would guess that the majority simply wanted to do the job. Historically, it’s been a pretty sought after position and if you enjoy working with, mentoring or helping people, it’s very fulfilling. That said, doing OE every single trip in a 737 or being locked in a dark box for four hours a day, correcting the same errors over and over, is a little less glamorous than when one was on the outside looking in.

Given what American purportedly is offering in their new TA, if we don’t get a substantial increase in compensation for these positions, I think a lot of the more senior/seasoned folks will finally pull the trigger on their widebody captain beds, or solid line-holding NB Denver captain bid.

Personally, I think the PI‘s are a little more likely to stay… The lifestyle difference between working at TK and taking a junior captain bid is very different. If one appeals to you, the other one probably would not. But as a more senior check airman, the quality of life increase from doing OE on a guppy 16 days a month, to flying even the more Junior widebody captain lines, is a fairly obvious increase in QOL.

GPullR

PI hasn't been a desired job by many for years.
You say senior check airmen but majority are quite junior now.

That Guy 74

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ALL OF THIS.

Initially I did get a bit emotional after reading through the redline Tumi TA and saying 'WTF' more times than I could count. Then logic, reason, and critical thinking kicked in and emotion was put in check.

Yes, we were done wrong by the NC and MEC. That needs to be fixed...no sense in trusting those who already screwed up to 'fix' what was offered that only gets us back to what's on the books already.

Do I think we need to hold out for 50% and reinstatement of a defined pension plan? Absolutely not. It's not reasonable to think we're going to make that kind of jump from where we are.

However, we can and will do better than the Tumi TA. To think that the individuals who already wasted so much time and tried to sell us cow pie in the end game would then somehow wind up working on behalf of the pilots they were supposed to be representing in the first place is foolhardy.

To the individuals who keep saying we can't discount the time factor of money, you are correct...to a point. If the money we eventually get is completely offset by the work rules they were going to implement and quality of life suffers dramatically (I believe it would have with the reserve & reassignment crap in thr Tumi TA), NO amount of money now would have made up for the pain of concessionary work rules going forward.

Last thought....I still can't wrap my head around an MEC/NC who thought reducing 1st day reserve by 4 hours would be 'schedule with safety.' Colgan Air flight 3407 (and many others) ring a bell?

Chowdah

I disagree with both statements. If you have access to the LCA roster, take a look, if you don’t, broad strokes: 90% can hold a line and more than half are top 60% in BES conservatively. So while there are quite a few new bodies doing LCA work in the 60-75% BES range, the majority could chase more money/QOL on the 756 or wide body. So ultimately when I say senior, I don’t mean most are sub 3,000 seniority, but it’s not as junior as some would have you believe.

As far as the PI gig, most of the reasonable chatter I hear is about missing out on PPU, but our bandaid approach to open flying is not guaranteed indefinitely. Their pay rate/hour combo puts them squarely around NB CA reserve. For the 2 year PIs, if you would rather sit reserve over the weekends 18 days a month, vs be home every night and most holidays… I’m not sure why you’d take the PI gig in the first place.

GPullR

If they're so desired please tell me why there are/were postings for openings for the last year non stop.
In order to make any more money on the 75/6 you have to be top 3000 or you will never see the 764 pay rate. Others pay the same.
Ip is always the same . During bad times everybody wants to hide out there. When times are good nobody wants to be there.

awax

Both of you should run for an MEC positions. You have hyperbole, misplaced inference, and the ability to blather on without actually saying anything down!

If you read my post, I said what I meant. To spell it out for you:

A new MEC, in order to truly represent “the will of the pilots”, will have to start from square one. Starting from square one will take significantly more time than tweaking TA1.

Otherwise, aren’t they carrying on with the work of the failed MEC that you despise?

We’ll soon see if TA2 will be tweaked enough to hit 50.1% I’m certain that everyone is paying attention now.

hummingbear

Did you read TUMI? We’re at square zero.

Again, sunk cost fallacy. You may feel you don’t have enough to time to change representatives. After 3 years & TUMI, I feel I don’t have another minute to waste on the current ones.

PilotsAreDumb

We’ll soon see TA2? Uh, no we won’t. There is no TA2. Did you not read the comms from both the union and management? Not to mention there’s a slim possibility that TA1 could still pass.

Random Task

Soon? Check your email...

awax

AA BOD will meet to review their TA on 10/31. What do you think happens after those numbers are public?