I'll jump in too. You never have to answer a phone call from them on the LDO. Check MS at 1800. If a flying assignment is there you can check in on CCS. If a reserve assignment is there you call them to acknowledge but only after 1800.

I made a huge mistake last April. The day before a reserve day, the crew desk called and I answered. They gave me a 8am show the next day (first day of a reserve stretch). I was obligated because they made contact with me. If I had let the call go to voicemail, and called after 18:00, they could not have given me the trip. They can't start you before 10:00 on the first day of reserve following a day off.

Totally agree, I usually do shut my ringer off but I forgot to do so last night.

Update: looked at CCS and she probably called because I'm now assigned a trip with a DH show time of 1725 and take off time of 1755 (go on SC at 1500, so inside the 2.5 hour window) but she couldn't officially notify me of the trip because I hadn't started my SC block yet.

Again - no transparency in their decision matrix really sucks!

You whiners! ;) :D

No whining here. I've been on RSV for about 9 of my almost 20 years! I do my 5-7 days of flying a month and rack up some SCs for extra cash. VDOs sometimes as well!! Piece of cake. :cool:

Sled,

Pilots (on both forums) who have suggested that the reserve system could use some tweaking have been ridiculed and labeled as "whiners". My comment was sarcastic in nature given that this thread has offered up numerous examples which help to debunked the label.

Occasionally, reserve can be a great gig for some pilots in some bases. Next month a whole slew long time line holding SFO 777 pilots are going to get a taste of it. Let's hope they are all so lucky.

Glad things are working out for you.

Seriously, fill out an ALPA PDR about the call. We need to document these abuses and screw ups for ammo in the upcoming contract talks. Sorry it happened. But this is opportunity to change for the better and do some fixes to the reserve system.

A couple of misconceptions here. I think these are right, without contract reference. But here goes.
1. You are required to be phone available at 0001 on any long call days. Unless you have an assignment, you have to be available. If you have an assignment, don't answer unless you want to. Yes you still have to check your schedule between 1800 and midnight the day prior.
2. With the above, it doesn't mean they can start you before 1000 on day 1 That is a requirement for FAR 117 rest and our contract. Of course you can volunteer for a start prior, but they can't make you.
3. I don't believe since you answered, you are on the hook. That is a common misconception. Just because you answer doesn't mean they can violate the contract. Along with this, leaving a voice mail does not constitute contact. They must talk to you or you acknowledge the assignment in CCS
4. As a reminder, once you finish duty after a trip meaning block in plus 15 minutes, you are back on long call, and again, must be phone available. Again, it doesn't mean they can give you an illegal assignment, jus that you must be available for contact. This includes any commuter flights home.

Yes, reserve could be better.

ahhh. tk mako ... (you are tk, right?)
i thinks you are conflating the ideas of "whining" and "legitimately bad to be on reserve sometimes at this airline"

yes. reserve was really "bad" in the early nineties. (you had to be phone avail 24/7 for strings of days and pretty darn close to the parking lot). and when we went to the bars down by the beach, we whined about it over beers.

and today, i guess, sometimes they call at odd hours and sometimes they ask pilots on reserve to be - horrors - near the parking lot ( and we call this "SC" now i guess). and ppl get online and "whine". it is still whining - even if it's on a forum and not at a beach bar AND even if it's truly truly true that it kinda pretty sucks to be on reserve

sometimes, mako, your posts make sense and at least make good efforts to be not-bland. so appreciated.
but don't attack the posters (like me) who point out whining when they see (and know) whining
i whined a lot on reserve. a lot.

I'm not a TK guy, but my hat is off to 99 percent of the PI's who I've had over the years. And, my whiners comment was meant to be sarcastic and was intentionally accompanied by both a winking emoji and a big smile. I've been on reserve most of my 18 years here, so I've got a pretty good grip on it, the good and the bad.

From The Washington Post's, Style Invitational

sarchasm - the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it

The challenge was to make a new word by altered by adding, subtracting, or changing only one letter and supplying a new definition.

3 SC so far this month, used all 3 times. Sled made this sound like vacation, what gives? I'm supposed to be working in my yard all day....

Yea yea. I got your sarcasm in your singular post " you whiners" with emojis (and I don't even know how to add emojis)

I was commenting on your subsequent post where you mentioned that some on this forum label reserve complainers as whiners

I don't think that was sarcasm. When I tried sarcasm and irony in high school English lit, my teacher scolded me and said it was dangerous to try and usually fails. If your second comment was meant as sarcasm, I think it fails.

I stand by the proper label of the reserve forum posters who complain about reserve. They are whining. Pure and simple

And of course you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

It will be interesting to see now that the company is aggressively reshuffling a huge part of the deck (not to mention the unintended consequences of 50+ Tomahawk missiles flying into Syria to stem the rapid unwinding of the Trump mystique) how many line holders will get their first taste of reserve duty, and how many of them will find elements of it distasteful. One need look no further than what recently happened to the G line in DC (777) and now in SFO (777) than to get an idea of how many guys will suddenly find themselves on Short Call.

You know what???????


Just a month or two ago, right here on this United page, right here on APC. Some ignoramuses made a comment as to the effect that we don't need to fix reserve BECAUSE anybody who's on reserve did it to themselves therefore deserve what they get. My point EXACTLY was that; NO!! sometimes when things aren't good with the airline industry that you can become totally accidentally a reserve guy for a LONG LONG time against your will. That is why reserve needs to be fixed.

Hoss, you whiner! ;)

Thank you for reiterating a timely and very valid point. Things are about to get interesting.

you boys do like to sit around the whiskey barrel and pat each other's back!
again. slowly class. just because reserve sucks doesn't mean ppl who whine about it aren't whiners. they are. i was when i was on reserve. and if forced back on, i'll surely whine again.
so go ahead and hit the forums and wailing walls and layover pubs in your sneakers and complain (whine) about how reserve sucks.
it's still whining. and the 80% (changing all the time and whoever they are) are not going to give up contractual benefits just because the (current) 20% on reserve are whining

ok. another sip. go ahead. type away

Most of the people posting on this thread are currently on reserve (it is labeled "Reserve Thread" after all) and are attempting to offer suggestive criticisms of how to improve the next contract. Others choose to whine about these contributors and the whole idea of improving the contract while they are enjoy line holder status.

It is what it is.

if by "improve the next contract" you mean make reserve a better deal while making lineholding a worse deal - then yes, it is what it is, as you say.
if you don't understand that those trades go hand in hand, i'm wasting time discussing this here with you. but i suspect you do understand labor contract economics.
and nice try switching the labels.
those who whine about reserve are whiners.
those who call them out are merely speaking bluntly. not whining. i see you self- admire your own believed powers to be clever on a forum. but it doesn't work here. whining is whining. calling out whiners is not whining. nice try but no prize today

🙄

This message is hidden because buscappy is on your ignore list.

Who drug him off his senior pillar? I assume it's our fault that the G line in SFO and DCA 777 keep getting more senior? Reserve is a choice why should we fix it :rolleyes:.

The point of the thread is, and many here are on reserve, that minimal changes could be made with large increases in quality of life on reserve. Minimal. Minimal negotiating capital. Minimal, for large gains. That's a win.

Also minimal impact on the companies side. Improve transparency, reduce crew desk abuse, just because they can. Almost no impact on the operation, and much more livable. It's not about taking from line holders. It's about stopping the abuse. Sounds a lot like why some voted for or against the last contract arguments.

if there are gains to be had at zero to minimal overall contract cost, then the union is incompetent and the other forum thread that everyone needs to wear their tie tacks is ridiculous

but, Dave, i doubt the union left costless quality of life improvements on the table. really doubt it

(and, to define the event where the company shedulers ask a pilot on reserve to be near the parking lot and available within a couple hours as "crew desk abuse" is the height of labor employee whining. but if the 1% of the 20% wanna sit around the crash pad sofas complaining that the company wants reserves to be near the airport - go for it. personally, on reserve, i always carried a pager to a golf course near the airport and saved my whining for the bar on my days off)

Holy $hite Dude, We can all see your side; I politely don't agree. Based on your last paragraph it seems that you are so stubbornly burying your head in the sand and not even trying to understand the other side of the issue that I'm feeling sorry for you.

Respectfully, whether your misunderstanding is based on ignorance or arrogance; born of seniority, obtuseness or former company loyalty is largely irrelevant. You are digging and digging and digging after you've hit bottom. You seem to be unaware that reserve is not always a choice. That is an immutable truth in this industry.

Cheers.

As the previous poster said, I disagree.

Let's review some recent contract history, LUAL side.
1. Bankruptcy, horrendous contract, at least we can agree on that.
2. Several years in negotiating to fix that contract, before the merger was announced.
3. Merger announced. Trying to fix the bankruptcy contract during the same time as a combined contract. Lots of obstacles. Including almost being released to 30 days cooling off.
4. Not much time spent on the little things because there were so many big ones. Needed to get it done to stop Jeffy from playing games.
5. Contract extension was the time to fix a few little things, but that didn't get done. For a variety of reasons.
6. The time is now to fix those little things that we couldn't or wouldn't in the extension.

If not now when? Again, minimal negotiating capital for major gains in quality of life. Whether you agree or not, reserve is not always a choice. If it weren't so bad, it would also alter people's decisions for when to bid new equipment. Not good or bad, just a different choice. Why not make that small investment and let it grow?

nfl and dave

go thru my posts. i never said reserve was a choice. but you guys attack me on this point. not very good debaters are ya?
i know reserve is not always a choice. i slipped from line to rsv after 9/11.
i know reserve sucks. it sucked worse in the past but it still sucks.
endless complaining about it is whining.
"fixing it" in a collective bargaining agreement means giving up something else. if you guys don't understand that, you don't understand collective bargaining.. or any bargaining.
and that is why it likely won't be a priority in bargaining - reserves are always only about 20%. not enough votes. get it ?

jeeesh. I'm in a forum debate with a handful of knuckleheads ill-prepared for logical discussions
enjoy yourselves
I recommend hitting the links or the gym while on reserve. somewhere near the airport

I understand this and am willing to give up something for it in negotiations. I have told my reps that.
FYI, If you are in search of a logical discussion, then get off your high horse. It's preventing you from seeing anyone else's point.
Cheers.

no. i fully see "others" (about six guys on a forum) point. and i call it out as whining and i point out that it will cost in other areas to change the reserve rules. and unlike a few grumblers on a forum, i am not willing to give up other comp/rules to make reserve any better.
and apparently a majority of pilots vote the same way.
now let me climb back up on my horse....

FWIW, as a lineholder I want it fixed and am not willing to give up anything in this environment of record profits and significant "shareholder incentives."

The pie has become larger and I expect my union to maintain our share, which equates to a higher total cost of the pilot contract in straight dollars. We can improve both reserve & lineholder QOL and compensation. It's math.

I think if you answer the phone prior to 1800 you are on the hook. At least, that seems to be the direction from the union. This MEC explanation is about the FAR issue, but it says if two-way contact is made they can make an assignment before 1000, so long as it is both FAR and UPA compliant. I think voluntary or not. Do not the answer phone when not required to.

https://www.alpa.org/~/media/UAL/Fil...2014-09-04.pdf

The “legal to report” column displays the earliest time you are legal to either “report” or “depart” for your next assignment based on UPA and FAR 117 post trip off duty requirements.

There will be a “D” or an “R” before each time and date indicating which time is driving your legality. The “D” indicates the time is legal to Depart and the “R” indicates the time is legal to Report.

Note 1-Last Day Off Prior to Reserve Days: The legal to report time shown for the first day of RSV is based on the UPA 20-K-7 rules and may not consider FAR 117. A report time earlier than 1000 can only be used if the pilot answered the phone on their day off (which is never required) and is given an assignment. In other words, unless the pilot is contacted by phone (two-way communication, not simply a message) on his last day off, his legal to report time for the first day on RSV will be 1000 as driven by FAR 117.

Note 2-Short Call: A short call window can begin before the published legal to report time (“R” or “D”), however, the pilot will not be required to report/depart on a trip before the published time.

Example 1
00G1234 B SMITH D 06:00/30
In the example above, the pilot is UPA legal to depart at 0600 on the 30th. This pilot is on his first day of reserve availability after RDOs but was released at 1500 on his last day of reserve before his RDOs. The FIFO list shows the UPA legal to report time, but crew schedulers and pilots must also comply with the FAR legality. Unless the company successfully makes contact with the pilot on his day off, or unless he aggressively picks up a trip, he is not FAR legal to report until 1000. There is obviously a chance of scheduler confusion on this issue and pilots must be sure they are not inadvertently assigned a report prior to 1000.

The UPA reference is 20-K-7-a and 20-K-7-a (1):
20-K-7-a On the day following his day(s) off, a Reserve shall not be required to depart from his Base prior to 0700 except that such time shall instead be: 20-K-7-a-(1) 0600, if the Pilot was released from being available for assignment at or before 1500 on the day preceding his scheduled day(s) off.

yea. see. really not understanding collective bargaining. guess i shouldn't expect too much from a pilot forum
my bad
🙄

Additionally, the UPA requires them to call on the last day off sometimes, so when they call it's not necessarily fishing or trying to trick us. Expect to be called and just don't answer the phone.

20-K-7-c Assignments made from 1500 to 1759 on the last day off prior to reserve days shall be placed in the Pilot's schedule and the Company shall notify the Pilot by phone.

Also, a Did You Know says that they're likely to call for all assignments now. Expect to be called and just don't answer the phone.

"the crew desk’s current policy is to call all numbers on your Master Schedule and ensure you are properly notified, even in cases where the UPA does not normally require the crew desk to call."

https://www.alpa.org/~/media/UAL/Fil...ssignments.pdf

lesson learned for all on RSV... don't answer the phone until after midnight on your last day off. If you answer earlier your fault if you get hosed.

Its easy. You get enough seniority to where you can hold a line and then you realize you can hold the next highest paying seat, but you'll be on reserve, so you bid it hoping to get a line soon. Then when you can hold a line, you immediately bid up to the next highest paying seat, even though you will be on reserve again.

Its sort of like that meme going around Facebook that says "I want six-pack abs, but I also want tacos."

Congratulations. You and svergin have been able to enjoy a somewhat charmed life here at UA.

I've been bumped, quite "against my will" on three different occasions here at UA. And all three times I ended up on reserve during a period when no other bids were available because the airline was shrinking. When you get bumped and shrinkage puts you on bottom, there's nowhere else to go. On top of that, on two other occasions (as a new hire and then again when returning from furlough) I had but one option, either enjoy my time on reserve, or not fly for United. I took the only obvious choice that I had. My experience is not unique.

b52 and sverin seem to get this . OM, warmer, warmer. it still is not about whether rsv is by choice or not. of course sometimes it's forced on folks. it's about how much better the voters want to make sitting reserve at the expense of those holding a line.
three thoughts:
if the union and co make reserve too much better, (even more) senior folk will bid rsv and juniors will get on the forum and continue to whine - about their shoddy lines. trust me. rsv is almost that good now. i fly with a lot of ppl who bid rsv on purpose, fly 1/2 what i fly, and get a full paycheck every month.
two. maybe what the forum complainers really want is to do away with seniority-based bidding and just spread reserve around equally (like the stews have done in the past) if so, at least just say so. my gad, at least Bernie talked of spreading it around straight to our faces.
and three. going on a forum and complaining about the reserve system is whining. that's definitional

ok. OM u can restate that rsv isnt always a choice and Dave u can restate that it would cost almost nothing to have the co make reserve better. but if i don't respond (again) just see many previous posts 🙄

Five glorious forced surpluses for me. I never got furloughed but I got close and spent a long time in the bottom of the list. There are certain seniority groups at this airline who got to eat some major manure sandwiches for a good amount of time. And apparently some people didn't realize what was going on with the unwashed masses below them.

Collective bargaining. When times are good, and we have record profits, I certainly do not expect to give up something every time we get something we want at the negotiating table. Why in the world would we give stuff for improvements in reserve, in good times?

Granted, things may change before we open, but for now, I don't want to give up anything. I gave enough during bankruptcy as did we all. In fact, we still have a ways to go to get back to what we had. Concessions? No way. Yes, I want my cake and eat it too.

Yup... some surplused right into the unemployment line... twice to boot.