Thanks JoeP - was IACP the inhouse union that People Express brought to CAL and mostly controlled by Fred and his lackeys?

PE didn't have a union, you are thinking of the Ops Group- I'm not sure if that was a PE/NY Air holdover or a new concept. Either way, it carried zero weight with the company.

Uh, no. The PE guys and gals wanted ALPA as did most of the New York Air types. A SCAB started the IACP but don't let that those facts get in your way.

Revisionist history. It's in the record that PE pilots did not want ALPA or any union. They considered themselves to be "managers" , and in fact did second jobs besides flying , like finance, marketing,...in their employee handbook they were referred to as "Flight Managers". Most of them would like that bit of history to slip into darkness.

It was all very Kum buy ya.

Trying to turn s--t to shinola again there - are ya'? If IACP was the CAL union that merged into ALPA, then it was the CAL pilots that allowed the scabs into their inhouse union regardless of who or what group started the IACP. As a result, ALPA allowed CAL IACP join ALPA scabs, warts and all.

JoeP did a good job explaining the transaction without all your revisionist history and rancor. We have a lot of new guys on property and maybe a little truth will go along way to help them understand the CAL side of the family. Several years have past and I'm still learning about the dark side.

That was when they first started up. When we Unionizing the PE/NYA guys were leading the charge to get ALPA on the property as were the late '80's early '90 hires like myself. Was on the ALPA organizing Committee both times and PE's Jim Brucia led the charge.

I'll agree PE had a strange work ethic when they first started up but the strongest Union guys I ever flew were were invariably PE or NYA.

I'm afraid you aren't very familiar with the US's Labor Laws as it applies to Unions. ALPA had to take the SCABS from the IACP as it was a reorganizing drive and the transaction would have been nullified without taking every member of the previous Union that represented CAL.

I certainly didn't want the SCAB's as did a good many others. IACP was started by a SCAB, fact. I voted for ALPA during the organizing drive, fact. The SCABS and the management wanted the IACP and sent out dozens of messages indicating that the Eastern guys would get DOH on our list if we certified ALPA and scared the more timid non-SCABS of our group into voting for the inept IACP, also fact.

Trust me AA, the hard-core Unionist types at CAL did not want the IACP or later the SCABS to be allowed into our Union. Thank the US labor laws for that one.

Very familiar - the point I was trying to make in an earlier post was that it was the CAL pilots that allowed the CAL scabs in their union which I thought was CAL ALPA but instead it was the IACP at the time. JoeP explained and corrected that thinking. For someone who says he was a strong unionists along with the PE/NYA pilots and familiar with labor laws, I'm surprised that you've never tried to correct the many claims that ALPA national allowed the Scabs into ALPA.

While I never said it was labor laws that required ALPA to take all(includes Scab) or nothing that was the point and implied. Alpa does not or did not make the CAL scabs whole - it was the local union. ALPA National does not have a master scab list and I'm not sure they have a non-member list either. Both would likely be handled at local level.

Notice that I didn't use Captain Obvious because I know you are having a hard time.

Yes, the original Union, the IACP, allowed SCABS because a SCAB started the whole thing. I, and quite a few others, campaigned for ALPA to represent us and we lost. SCABS should never be allowed in a Union so I think we're on the same page with that.

You're painting us all with a pretty broad brush which is not very fair. Quite a few of us did not vote for an in-house SCAB Union and wanted ALPA back after their long absence.

Still not getting what I'm having a "hard time" over?

ALPA National did allow the CAL Scabs back in. There are some errors in the posts above as to what occurred when the IACP was merged into ALPA.

In 2000 Duane Woerth and his right hand man Howard Attarian approached the IACP about coming back into the ALPA fold. The IACP made it clear that the only possibility is with amnesty given to the Scabs.

In October 2000 at the ALPA BOD meeting Duane brought forth to the BOD for discussion bringing the CAL pilots back into ALPA and that realistically the the only way that was going to happen was to allow the CAL Scabs back into ALPA. I'm sure this was a very heated and contentious BOD but in the end Duane had approval from the ALPA BOD to percede.

Then Duane negotiated a merger agreement with the IACP that was approved by the IACP BOD. The IACP BOD was made up of CAL pilot reps (some were Scabs) and Continental Express pilot reps as the IACP was a single union for CAL & CALEXP.

One of ALPA's demands was the Eastern Scabs were not given amnesty. There was a block of 150 or so Eastern pilots comprised of Eastern full term strikers and Scabs that came to Continental in 97 from a EAL bankruptcy settlement.

The Eastern Scabs had to reapply to ALPA and pay back dues and or strike penalties . The IACP & ALPA both allowed this to happen proving you don't have to allow Scabs back in as stated in posts above.