2016 Hiring Data
06-13-2017, 08:44 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 694
You can sit around lamenting some sort of algorithm making the decisions and the human factor removed but it's not accurate. I've only been at UAL for a few years so the hiring process is fresh in my mind and I have several friends who have had the good fortune of making the leap since then as well. Here's what I can tell you.
Everyone I know has has some sort of face to face interaction with people from UAL at some point. That is key from the perspectives of: 1) United getting to know you beyond a bunch of 1s and 0s, 2) a chance for you to establish that, beyond your 5ish-15k flight hours and great-on-paper appearance you have a fair chance of interacting well with both our customers and co-workers, and 3) you're expressing a basic level of interest in working for United by going above and beyond simply dropping $50 to Airlineapps and a data dump into the program.
Second, do an honest to goodness self-assessment of your present hireability and what flaws you have (we all have them) and what you can do to fix them. Most of us who have been here for a modest amount of time have talked with many of our interested friends. Some are dialed in, know the process, have fantastic resumes and interact extremely well with others, plus are making the effort and continuing to better themselves. For them, it's a matter of time, getting the call, and then making it through the hiring process unless somewhere else calls first. It's "when, not if", but still a little luck and a lot of prep involved.
There are also a fair number who have either fundamental or fixable "issues". Off the top of my head I can personally think of a few friends with 1) seriously bad online app w/ multiple grammar issues, contradictions or even bad excuses for checkride failures, 2) 1000 hours of TSIC and no degree, not much on the resume, and yet an expectation of a job, 3) 50+, not really making any efforts and still expecting a call, and blaming your lack of progress on "quota people" or 20-somethings who you fail to acknowledge in most cases are actually relentlessly working their butts off to get the job and have a solid background 4) hirable but not interested in making a sincere effort to prep for the interview... resulting in really tough odds of getting the job after the call, 5) just plain bitter, which is usually easy to pick up on, or 6) a plain old questionable background that sets off red flags due to lots of failures, DUIs, strange job changes that suggest firing, etc.
Other than #5, these are all fixable, but again, you've got to be honest with yourself and don't expect overnight results if you make some changes. The job is there to earn, but "earn" is the key word. You may get lucky and earn the job at 3000 hours and a recent upgrade with the efforts you're making (no company wants exclusively a cadre of 50y.o. guys who are out the door in 15 years even if they were Yeager or Sully in a former life), but when you realize that amongst the people UAL (and the other majors to be sure) hires are retired military O-6s who ran squadrons and have significant combat time, and civilian side pilots with demonstrated leadership and experience and drive, if you're plugging away at bare minimum, you might want to reassess.
Sorry for length... the TLDR on this is: Keep working at it - your efforts matter. It's not just an algorithm and they really do care. Oh, and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Everyone I know has has some sort of face to face interaction with people from UAL at some point. That is key from the perspectives of: 1) United getting to know you beyond a bunch of 1s and 0s, 2) a chance for you to establish that, beyond your 5ish-15k flight hours and great-on-paper appearance you have a fair chance of interacting well with both our customers and co-workers, and 3) you're expressing a basic level of interest in working for United by going above and beyond simply dropping $50 to Airlineapps and a data dump into the program.
Second, do an honest to goodness self-assessment of your present hireability and what flaws you have (we all have them) and what you can do to fix them. Most of us who have been here for a modest amount of time have talked with many of our interested friends. Some are dialed in, know the process, have fantastic resumes and interact extremely well with others, plus are making the effort and continuing to better themselves. For them, it's a matter of time, getting the call, and then making it through the hiring process unless somewhere else calls first. It's "when, not if", but still a little luck and a lot of prep involved.
There are also a fair number who have either fundamental or fixable "issues". Off the top of my head I can personally think of a few friends with 1) seriously bad online app w/ multiple grammar issues, contradictions or even bad excuses for checkride failures, 2) 1000 hours of TSIC and no degree, not much on the resume, and yet an expectation of a job, 3) 50+, not really making any efforts and still expecting a call, and blaming your lack of progress on "quota people" or 20-somethings who you fail to acknowledge in most cases are actually relentlessly working their butts off to get the job and have a solid background 4) hirable but not interested in making a sincere effort to prep for the interview... resulting in really tough odds of getting the job after the call, 5) just plain bitter, which is usually easy to pick up on, or 6) a plain old questionable background that sets off red flags due to lots of failures, DUIs, strange job changes that suggest firing, etc.
Other than #5, these are all fixable, but again, you've got to be honest with yourself and don't expect overnight results if you make some changes. The job is there to earn, but "earn" is the key word. You may get lucky and earn the job at 3000 hours and a recent upgrade with the efforts you're making (no company wants exclusively a cadre of 50y.o. guys who are out the door in 15 years even if they were Yeager or Sully in a former life), but when you realize that amongst the people UAL (and the other majors to be sure) hires are retired military O-6s who ran squadrons and have significant combat time, and civilian side pilots with demonstrated leadership and experience and drive, if you're plugging away at bare minimum, you might want to reassess.
Sorry for length... the TLDR on this is: Keep working at it - your efforts matter. It's not just an algorithm and they really do care. Oh, and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Originally Posted by ecam
Funny. Everyone I know at the regional and even LCC level that has met UAL recruiters at a "job fair" have been told something similar. I will never understand why they waste everyone's time with this.
Despite what you hear from line pilots who haven't interviewed in a half a decade or more, the days of networking and who you know are over. I know people who are so well connected, they could walk into the Willis Tower and have lunch with any number of managers, yet they can't get past the computerized algorithm, despite high time, degrees, and clean records. Nowadays, if your quals and demographics don't hit the sweet spot of whatever the algorithm is looking for, you don't get an interview. No one can get you past the algorithm. Which is why the recruiters blow smoke up everyone's butts. If UAL is seriously interested in hiring the best, they heed to put more human interaction back in. Not have a lottery.
Despite what you hear from line pilots who haven't interviewed in a half a decade or more, the days of networking and who you know are over. I know people who are so well connected, they could walk into the Willis Tower and have lunch with any number of managers, yet they can't get past the computerized algorithm, despite high time, degrees, and clean records. Nowadays, if your quals and demographics don't hit the sweet spot of whatever the algorithm is looking for, you don't get an interview. No one can get you past the algorithm. Which is why the recruiters blow smoke up everyone's butts. If UAL is seriously interested in hiring the best, they heed to put more human interaction back in. Not have a lottery.
06-13-2017, 09:52 AM
#12
Banned
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 733
That's all great advice, and is advice most of us have heard before. What befuddles me is seeing low total time (and some no PIC time) millennial pilots flooding in, while my friends stuck flying RJs at dying UA express carriers, (most over 10k hours and 5k jet PIC) have had apps in for 10 years and can't get a call.
Sure it's nice that you discussed the various well known hoops people can jump through to hopefully show "someone" they want the job. but when they have been to multiple job fairs, get the same old spiel, then more crickets, it's easy to get frustrated. Not sure who else they can impress. It becomes apparent they just aren't wanted.
And how 'bout that pilot shortage! Pilots will always be begging for mainline jobs. There will NEVER be a pilot shortage at legacy carriers.
Sure it's nice that you discussed the various well known hoops people can jump through to hopefully show "someone" they want the job. but when they have been to multiple job fairs, get the same old spiel, then more crickets, it's easy to get frustrated. Not sure who else they can impress. It becomes apparent they just aren't wanted.
And how 'bout that pilot shortage! Pilots will always be begging for mainline jobs. There will NEVER be a pilot shortage at legacy carriers.
06-13-2017, 10:09 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,132
Originally Posted by ecam
That's all great advice, and is advice most of us have heard before. What befuddles me is seeing low total time (and some no PIC time) millennial pilots flooding in, while my friends stuck flying RJs at dying UA express carriers, (most over 10k hours and 5k jet PIC) have had apps in for 10 years and can't get a call.
Sure it's nice that you discussed the various well known hoops people can jump through to hopefully show "someone" they want the job. but when they have been to multiple job fairs, get the same old spiel, then more crickets, it's easy to get frustrated. Not sure who else they can impress. It becomes apparent they just aren't wanted.
And how 'bout that pilot shortage! Pilots will always be begging for mainline jobs. There will NEVER be a pilot shortage at legacy carriers.
Sure it's nice that you discussed the various well known hoops people can jump through to hopefully show "someone" they want the job. but when they have been to multiple job fairs, get the same old spiel, then more crickets, it's easy to get frustrated. Not sure who else they can impress. It becomes apparent they just aren't wanted.
And how 'bout that pilot shortage! Pilots will always be begging for mainline jobs. There will NEVER be a pilot shortage at legacy carriers.
There are 786 pilots on property under the age of 35, and 75 of those were hired pre merger at CAL or UAL. So only 741 millennials have been hired since NOV 2012 out of the 2300+ pilots United has hired in that time frame.
06-13-2017, 11:58 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: 777FO
Posts: 703
Originally Posted by Chuck D
Sorry for length... the TLDR on this is: Keep working at it - your efforts matter. It's not just an algorithm and they really do care. Oh, and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
06-13-2017, 12:57 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Originally Posted by Chuck D
You can sit around lamenting some sort of algorithm making the decisions and the human factor removed but it's not accurate. I've only been at UAL for a few years so the hiring process is fresh in my mind and I have several friends who have had the good fortune of making the leap since then as well. Here's what I can tell you.
Everyone I know has has some sort of face to face interaction with people from UAL at some point. That is key from the perspectives of: 1) United getting to know you beyond a bunch of 1s and 0s, 2) a chance for you to establish that, beyond your 5ish-15k flight hours and great-on-paper appearance you have a fair chance of interacting well with both our customers and co-workers, and 3) you're expressing a basic level of interest in working for United by going above and beyond simply dropping $50 to Airlineapps and a data dump into the program.
Second, do an honest to goodness self-assessment of your present hireability and what flaws you have (we all have them) and what you can do to fix them. Most of us who have been here for a modest amount of time have talked with many of our interested friends. Some are dialed in, know the process, have fantastic resumes and interact extremely well with others, plus are making the effort and continuing to better themselves. For them, it's a matter of time, getting the call, and then making it through the hiring process unless somewhere else calls first. It's "when, not if", but still a little luck and a lot of prep involved.
There are also a fair number who have either fundamental or fixable "issues". Off the top of my head I can personally think of a few friends with 1) seriously bad online app w/ multiple grammar issues, contradictions or even bad excuses for checkride failures, 2) 1000 hours of TSIC and no degree, not much on the resume, and yet an expectation of a job, 3) 50+, not really making any efforts and still expecting a call, and blaming your lack of progress on "quota people" or 20-somethings who you fail to acknowledge in most cases are actually relentlessly working their butts off to get the job and have a solid background 4) hirable but not interested in making a sincere effort to prep for the interview... resulting in really tough odds of getting the job after the call, 5) just plain bitter, which is usually easy to pick up on, or 6) a plain old questionable background that sets off red flags due to lots of failures, DUIs, strange job changes that suggest firing, etc.
Other than #5, these are all fixable, but again, you've got to be honest with yourself and don't expect overnight results if you make some changes. The job is there to earn, but "earn" is the key word. You may get lucky and earn the job at 3000 hours and a recent upgrade with the efforts you're making (no company wants exclusively a cadre of 50y.o. guys who are out the door in 15 years even if they were Yeager or Sully in a former life), but when you realize that amongst the people UAL (and the other majors to be sure) hires are retired military O-6s who ran squadrons and have significant combat time, and civilian side pilots with demonstrated leadership and experience and drive, if you're plugging away at bare minimum, you might want to reassess.
Sorry for length... the TLDR on this is: Keep working at it - your efforts matter. It's not just an algorithm and they really do care. Oh, and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Everyone I know has has some sort of face to face interaction with people from UAL at some point. That is key from the perspectives of: 1) United getting to know you beyond a bunch of 1s and 0s, 2) a chance for you to establish that, beyond your 5ish-15k flight hours and great-on-paper appearance you have a fair chance of interacting well with both our customers and co-workers, and 3) you're expressing a basic level of interest in working for United by going above and beyond simply dropping $50 to Airlineapps and a data dump into the program.
Second, do an honest to goodness self-assessment of your present hireability and what flaws you have (we all have them) and what you can do to fix them. Most of us who have been here for a modest amount of time have talked with many of our interested friends. Some are dialed in, know the process, have fantastic resumes and interact extremely well with others, plus are making the effort and continuing to better themselves. For them, it's a matter of time, getting the call, and then making it through the hiring process unless somewhere else calls first. It's "when, not if", but still a little luck and a lot of prep involved.
There are also a fair number who have either fundamental or fixable "issues". Off the top of my head I can personally think of a few friends with 1) seriously bad online app w/ multiple grammar issues, contradictions or even bad excuses for checkride failures, 2) 1000 hours of TSIC and no degree, not much on the resume, and yet an expectation of a job, 3) 50+, not really making any efforts and still expecting a call, and blaming your lack of progress on "quota people" or 20-somethings who you fail to acknowledge in most cases are actually relentlessly working their butts off to get the job and have a solid background 4) hirable but not interested in making a sincere effort to prep for the interview... resulting in really tough odds of getting the job after the call, 5) just plain bitter, which is usually easy to pick up on, or 6) a plain old questionable background that sets off red flags due to lots of failures, DUIs, strange job changes that suggest firing, etc.
Other than #5, these are all fixable, but again, you've got to be honest with yourself and don't expect overnight results if you make some changes. The job is there to earn, but "earn" is the key word. You may get lucky and earn the job at 3000 hours and a recent upgrade with the efforts you're making (no company wants exclusively a cadre of 50y.o. guys who are out the door in 15 years even if they were Yeager or Sully in a former life), but when you realize that amongst the people UAL (and the other majors to be sure) hires are retired military O-6s who ran squadrons and have significant combat time, and civilian side pilots with demonstrated leadership and experience and drive, if you're plugging away at bare minimum, you might want to reassess.
Sorry for length... the TLDR on this is: Keep working at it - your efforts matter. It's not just an algorithm and they really do care. Oh, and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Well said, Chuck.
06-13-2017, 01:15 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: 737
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by ecam
Funny. Everyone I know at the regional and even LCC level that has met UAL recruiters at a "job fair" have been told something similar. I will never understand why they waste everyone's time with this.
Despite what you hear from line pilots who haven't interviewed in a half a decade or more, the days of networking and who you know are over. I know people who are so well connected, they could walk into the Willis Tower and have lunch with any number of managers, yet they can't get past the computerized algorithm, despite high time, degrees, and clean records. Nowadays, if your quals and demographics don't hit the sweet spot of whatever the algorithm is looking for, you don't get an interview. No one can get you past the algorithm. Which is why the recruiters blow smoke up everyone's butts. If UAL is seriously interested in hiring the best, they heed to put more human interaction back in. Not have a lottery.
Despite what you hear from line pilots who haven't interviewed in a half a decade or more, the days of networking and who you know are over. I know people who are so well connected, they could walk into the Willis Tower and have lunch with any number of managers, yet they can't get past the computerized algorithm, despite high time, degrees, and clean records. Nowadays, if your quals and demographics don't hit the sweet spot of whatever the algorithm is looking for, you don't get an interview. No one can get you past the algorithm. Which is why the recruiters blow smoke up everyone's butts. If UAL is seriously interested in hiring the best, they heed to put more human interaction back in. Not have a lottery.
06-13-2017, 01:45 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by HuskerAv8tor
Not true! I say this based on personal experience. If you have a good resume and your app isn't screwed up, the right 'handshake' will get you a look. If the people you know have these awesome connections and still can't get an interview then I suspect there is more to the story.
06-13-2017, 01:56 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 783
Originally Posted by ecam
That's all great advice, and is advice most of us have heard before. What befuddles me is seeing low total time (and some no PIC time) millennial pilots flooding in, while my friends stuck flying RJs at dying UA express carriers, (most over 10k hours and 5k jet PIC) have had apps in for 10 years and can't get a call.
Sure it's nice that you discussed the various well known hoops people can jump through to hopefully show "someone" they want the job. but when they have been to multiple job fairs, get the same old spiel, then more crickets, it's easy to get frustrated. Not sure who else they can impress. It becomes apparent they just aren't wanted.
And how 'bout that pilot shortage! Pilots will always be begging for mainline jobs. There will NEVER be a pilot shortage at legacy carriers.
Sure it's nice that you discussed the various well known hoops people can jump through to hopefully show "someone" they want the job. but when they have been to multiple job fairs, get the same old spiel, then more crickets, it's easy to get frustrated. Not sure who else they can impress. It becomes apparent they just aren't wanted.
And how 'bout that pilot shortage! Pilots will always be begging for mainline jobs. There will NEVER be a pilot shortage at legacy carriers.
I have reached out to some people that are just like the people you mentioned and they hadn't updated medicals, the new addendum wasn't filled in, still hadn't done interview prep, and didn't want to ask for letters of rec from former first officers. It sucks but it has to be a second job to get hired and they have to stay on it. Simple errors and mistakes are most likely holding up their chances.
06-13-2017, 02:25 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by Chuck D
You can sit around lamenting some sort of algorithm making the decisions and the human factor removed but it's not accurate. I've only been at UAL for a few years so the hiring process is fresh in my mind and I have several friends who have had the good fortune of making the leap since then as well. Here's what I can tell you.
Everyone I know has has some sort of face to face interaction with people from UAL at some point. That is key from the perspectives of: 1) United getting to know you beyond a bunch of 1s and 0s, 2) a chance for you to establish that, beyond your 5ish-15k flight hours and great-on-paper appearance you have a fair chance of interacting well with both our customers and co-workers, and 3) you're expressing a basic level of interest in working for United by going above and beyond simply dropping $50 to Airlineapps and a data dump into the program.
Second, do an honest to goodness self-assessment of your present hireability and what flaws you have (we all have them) and what you can do to fix them. Most of us who have been here for a modest amount of time have talked with many of our interested friends. Some are dialed in, know the process, have fantastic resumes and interact extremely well with others, plus are making the effort and continuing to better themselves. For them, it's a matter of time, getting the call, and then making it through the hiring process unless somewhere else calls first. It's "when, not if", but still a little luck and a lot of prep involved.
There are also a fair number who have either fundamental or fixable "issues". Off the top of my head I can personally think of a few friends with 1) seriously bad online app w/ multiple grammar issues, contradictions or even bad excuses for checkride failures, 2) 1000 hours of TSIC and no degree, not much on the resume, and yet an expectation of a job, 3) 50+, not really making any efforts and still expecting a call, and blaming your lack of progress on "quota people" or 20-somethings who you fail to acknowledge in most cases are actually relentlessly working their butts off to get the job and have a solid background 4) hirable but not interested in making a sincere effort to prep for the interview... resulting in really tough odds of getting the job after the call, 5) just plain bitter, which is usually easy to pick up on, or 6) a plain old questionable background that sets off red flags due to lots of failures, DUIs, strange job changes that suggest firing, etc.
Other than #5, these are all fixable, but again, you've got to be honest with yourself and don't expect overnight results if you make some changes. The job is there to earn, but "earn" is the key word. You may get lucky and earn the job at 3000 hours and a recent upgrade with the efforts you're making (no company wants exclusively a cadre of 50y.o. guys who are out the door in 15 years even if they were Yeager or Sully in a former life), but when you realize that amongst the people UAL (and the other majors to be sure) hires are retired military O-6s who ran squadrons and have significant combat time, and civilian side pilots with demonstrated leadership and experience and drive, if you're plugging away at bare minimum, you might want to reassess.
Sorry for length... the TLDR on this is: Keep working at it - your efforts matter. It's not just an algorithm and they really do care. Oh, and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Everyone I know has has some sort of face to face interaction with people from UAL at some point. That is key from the perspectives of: 1) United getting to know you beyond a bunch of 1s and 0s, 2) a chance for you to establish that, beyond your 5ish-15k flight hours and great-on-paper appearance you have a fair chance of interacting well with both our customers and co-workers, and 3) you're expressing a basic level of interest in working for United by going above and beyond simply dropping $50 to Airlineapps and a data dump into the program.
Second, do an honest to goodness self-assessment of your present hireability and what flaws you have (we all have them) and what you can do to fix them. Most of us who have been here for a modest amount of time have talked with many of our interested friends. Some are dialed in, know the process, have fantastic resumes and interact extremely well with others, plus are making the effort and continuing to better themselves. For them, it's a matter of time, getting the call, and then making it through the hiring process unless somewhere else calls first. It's "when, not if", but still a little luck and a lot of prep involved.
There are also a fair number who have either fundamental or fixable "issues". Off the top of my head I can personally think of a few friends with 1) seriously bad online app w/ multiple grammar issues, contradictions or even bad excuses for checkride failures, 2) 1000 hours of TSIC and no degree, not much on the resume, and yet an expectation of a job, 3) 50+, not really making any efforts and still expecting a call, and blaming your lack of progress on "quota people" or 20-somethings who you fail to acknowledge in most cases are actually relentlessly working their butts off to get the job and have a solid background 4) hirable but not interested in making a sincere effort to prep for the interview... resulting in really tough odds of getting the job after the call, 5) just plain bitter, which is usually easy to pick up on, or 6) a plain old questionable background that sets off red flags due to lots of failures, DUIs, strange job changes that suggest firing, etc.
Other than #5, these are all fixable, but again, you've got to be honest with yourself and don't expect overnight results if you make some changes. The job is there to earn, but "earn" is the key word. You may get lucky and earn the job at 3000 hours and a recent upgrade with the efforts you're making (no company wants exclusively a cadre of 50y.o. guys who are out the door in 15 years even if they were Yeager or Sully in a former life), but when you realize that amongst the people UAL (and the other majors to be sure) hires are retired military O-6s who ran squadrons and have significant combat time, and civilian side pilots with demonstrated leadership and experience and drive, if you're plugging away at bare minimum, you might want to reassess.
Sorry for length... the TLDR on this is: Keep working at it - your efforts matter. It's not just an algorithm and they really do care. Oh, and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
06-13-2017, 04:00 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: 737
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by SNA320
Exactly right! I have had more than one friend whom I've recommended only to find out they have one or more skeletons in their closet. It all makes sense when the microscope comes out and all the details of an application are revealed.
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