Summer 2017 Pool
 

After the email last night from BK.
There's 153 poolies waiting for class...

Wondering how many poolies will actually make it to class? I personally know of 3 that have CJO's with another airline. And "other's" that have interviews at other places.

How many a class can/have they done in the past during a "pinch"? 50?

The 8 Dec 2015 class had 65 folks.

Just looking at the class drops for the last two new hire training last spring and it looks like about 25 per class. If that is correct, the current pool of 153 will be cleaned out before the end of Jan 18.....the hiring department will have to start interviewing and giving CJOs just to fill the classes currently on the books.

I personally know of 3 at my airline who were swimming and have accepted employment at DAL, FedEx and SWA respectively. Extrapolate that out and well....

I know three also... but all of them are going to wait it out and stay with United.
I think they should have jumped on any other interviews they got, but they felt otherwise.

Take the only class date you have, decide later if it's better to take another.

A bird in the hand vs. two in the bush and all that.

I know a guy who did newhire classes at USAir, then SWA, then FedEx, all within 12 months.

Regardless of whether you agree with his ultimate decision, I can find no fault in his methodology.

You know the which airline is the best?!? The one that hires you first!!

Anyone know if the 153 includes CPP folks or not? If not, would that delay those of us hired off the street in the pool?

There are at least 150 CPP candidates in a separate pool from one airline. The CPP candidates are given class dates as a percentage of total new hires. The percentage of new hire slots given to the CPP is 25% based on that one airline.

Short answer is not and yes.

Class after me in May had two guys leave on day 5 of indoc to start at Fedex , man times are changing .

Yep, their stack of applicants isn't nearly as deep as they think it is as they are blinded by their own arrogance.

When I went through the hiring process a few years ago, "arrogance" was not a term I would have associated with any part of the process.

Doris is probably the nicest person I've ever met in my life and she literally took interviewees by the hand and sat down with us to make sure our paperwork was in order.

Bill K went out of his way at the job fair I went to, then at the interview, then again during Indoc to comment on how amazed he was by the caliber of applicants he was seeing and thanking us all along the way because United needed good people and they knew they were not the only game in town.

The application and interview process can be frustrating and can seem like it takes an eternity, but don't confuse a lack of positive progress with ill will on United's part.

On the other hand, those Delta guys kind of seem like jerks...

(just kidding)

(kind of)

Some things stay the same, some things change.......

Doris, for years and years and years, SAME. As well as the people around her that help with the paperwork, "red pen", and overall do a great job of helping people to relax, etc. Even the security guy that greets you for you badge does.

Others? Depends on the applicant silo interviewee. And one of those as of late isn't as popular as a few years ago amongst the pilots as a whole.

I agree with you to an extent, my comment wasn't directed at Doris, Bill K. or anyone involved in the recruiting process. They take their marching orders from above. That is where arrogance lies.

Take it FWIW, just what I "heard" from someone in recruiting.

But sadly, it doesn't matter which airline, they haven't had a "realignment" yet of expectations.

Years ago when the hiring started, and they ALL had the infamous "XX,XXX" applicants, MANY of those were well qualified and VERY EXPERIENCED in many areas. Didn't matter if it was civ, mil, or a combination of both. If you look at the graphs/charts put out by (insert legacy MEC) at that time, the "average" flight times were high, almost to hyper competitive levels. Some friends of mine that went through (then) said that of the civilians, not one has less than 10K TT and not less than 2 type ratings. I know, I know.......WE ALL KNOW, there were classes that had lower. But the FACT IS, what used to be in the applicant stack just isn't there in the numbers it was then. As mentioned, DAL's charts put out show a decrease in TT as well as TPIC time as far as the "averages" go for BOTH mil and civ, and the combination thereof.

Some of the HR people haven't come to realize that yet, and still expect that of their candidates. And toss in that AA is hiring more (relatively speaking), DAL doesn't seem to stop, FedEx has picked up, UPS has picked up, SW has picked up, sucking of more of the candidates as well.

The key word is "some', NOT ALL.

sorry to be the negative Nancy but those guys screwed themselves. A new hire at any cargo company today is destined for disaster. Between age 67 (or 68) and the push for single pilot airplanes (10-20 years from now) my guess is they will be back in the pool sooner rather than later.

Totally disagree.
The first cargo carrier that will probably be the testbed for single pilot/reduced pilot operations will be either Amazon Prime Air, or some new company (Elon Musk?!) that buys the next gen Boeing (NMA) and offers their services to the FAA to test this stuff. Timeframe = 2025-2030.

Only after it works (which it probably will), will the union battles at FedEx/UPS start. Timeframe = 2030+
ANY pilot hired by them now, will still have a pretty safe and secure career.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The SSC Report from the union for July shows that our staffing is ok. Pilots on here were touting 16000, 18000 and more, in the next few years.
Not gonna happen.

Reality is, we will probably hire for retirements and until we see an huge jump in aircraft online.. that's about it. Not to mention that DenTK is still being rebuilt.
Still a pilot hiring world. (NewHire) Pilots can pick and choose where they want to go with regards to both the majors, and the cargo companies.

A couple of pilots leave during Indoc, just means that the next class will add a couple of extra pilots. The pool is deep enough, and if needed, they could interview and have people in class in a month.

Good Luck to the 400-500 pilots that will be hired in the next 12 months!
Always
Motch

^^^^^EXACTLY

Just because X amount pilots left in indoc/whatever amount of time for somewhere else, you can bet that X amount of pilots came FROM indoc/whatever amount of time somewhere else.

Thing that chapped my arse was the 5 months or NORDO from United.

I interviewed in March and was told expect June Indoc.

June obviously came and went...

Not until Aug do we get the first bit of comms as to what is going up on.

Unacceptable.

This is one of the problems with HR being (so) involved with Hiring.
Let's be honest.. most non pilots don't care if they can put 'pilots' lives in limbo for a while.

Would be interesting to know how many pilots who interviewed and got the CJO but then were left in limbo, started class with someone else.

Hang in there and hopefully it's soon. If ya end up on the 756 in EWR, biers on me~

Always
Motch

Plain and simple the hiring slow down is a three tier issue. One the training center rebuild. They simply do not have enough space ready to go, to take on the training load. Two they are critically short of of 737 instructors after the Houston move. Three, the final stages of un-Jeffing the over staffing in some bases is in its final stages.

So I'd say its more of an ignorance issue on your part than an arrogance issue at the top. Right now as I write this they are hiring nearly 30, 737 instructors with an additional 17, 777 instructors coming in the near future. And it takes a LONG time to get an instructor fully qualified and up to speed. It generally takes 18 to 24 months to get a guy fully up and completely qualified. It takes a good 2 to 3 months to get them where they are able to to the most basic stuff.

The instructor hiring alone should tell you that they are getting ready for a big hiring push. But by all means, if Fed Ex calls take the class date. A bird in hand......

I know 3 people in the pool above me that have already started Indoc at either FedEx or Delta.

I myself interviewed with Delta last week, got the CJO, and can start Indoc 2nd week do Sept.....a 38 day turn around.

Congrats. Do what is best for you and your family. I don't think anyone is questioning that.

Two things, we can discuss single pilot 121 ops after we get "ownship" on our iPads, and FedEx pilots retire with their pensions at 60. 67 or 68 means diddly, I believe UPS is the same.

American is doing the same thing, except with the CJO as well. Since they have no pool...it takes anywhere from a few days to 6 weeks to get a CJO, then a wait for class.in 2015 they even waited a year to offer CJO's due to furlough returnees. All with zero comm to the candidate. Ridiculous...

Dude.. congrats!
Seriously though- if you don't have a class date with U before the Delta class date, take it!
You can always leave D and start class at U if you so desire. But the nightmare scenario would be to turn down D because you have a class date at U in Oct, and then the next war/catastrophe/downturn happens inbetween and you're on the outside without a seniority number.

At the end of the day, the airline world (civilian world) isn't like the military world. You only have yourself looking out for yourself. As the lack of comm should show you~

Good Luck with whatever you decide. Good to be in the drivers seat!
Always
Motch

Seems to be common. Even the lovely folks at HAL were a couple months between Comms. It's always the way in aviation, believe it when your in class.

Imagine a few years ago during the 737 CA debacle when it was as long as 8-10 months :eek:

And then weirdly enough, it went the OTHER direction. UAL was putting people in class within 4-6 weeks and DAL was slacking.

Airhoss... PM Sent

And responded to....:)

lol, you are smoking some of the good stuff.

big hiring push.....like saying the 1200 next year has already turned into ~500?

Yeah just like that.

A lot of us were stuck in the pool for over 8 months in 2014. It completely sucked waiting, but it has been well worth the wait. Good luck!

The guys in the other thread will disagree, it'll be 1200!!!!:rolleyes:

It'll be what it it'll be. We get to find out what it was starting about 1/1/19.

My guess is by end of Q1 2018 :cool:

That's a good possibility. I've seen this company furiously hire into a furlough twice now. I've seen them dramatically increase the number of instructors on a particular fleet only to gut the instructor ranks on the same fleet within the year.

I've also seen them hold off on hiring new instructor only to suddenly find themselves critically short and unable to deal with the training demand. Right now they are seriously ramping up. Which logically would indicate a huge training increase. But logic seldom applies in the airline industry.

I can only tell you what's going on at the moment. I have no crystal ball to make definitive statements about the future. And neither does anyone else. No matter how desperately they need to feel important and superior.

Agreed on all.

Was just making the joke based past performance.

Plus by Q1 of this year it was pretty much certain they wouldn't hit the initial 800 number.

I get it John. :)

I get asked all the time, whats happening with the 350? Whats going on with hiring? When is the construction going to be complete? I can only tell people what I hear from those who are supposed to know and what I see with my own two eyes. I promise I don't make this stuff up.