From First to Worst
07-16-2018, 07:32 AM
#32
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Originally Posted by robthree
I think you grossly 'misunderestimate' how abysmal CAL was prior to Bethune getting a chance to pull it out of the dumpster fire. Everything he did was an improvement over the prior regimes that were sill trying to follow Lorenzo's legacy. Yeah, the contracts were not industry standard, but that does not diminish the fact that they were better than before, employee morale and customer satisfaction kept improving while he was in charge.
You're using contemporary conditions to judge the actions of the past. CAL of the early 90's was as bad a place to work as any in aviation history.
You're using contemporary conditions to judge the actions of the past. CAL of the early 90's was as bad a place to work as any in aviation history.
07-16-2018, 07:38 AM
#33
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Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 736
Originally Posted by robthree
I think you grossly 'misunderestimate' how abysmal CAL was prior to Bethune getting a chance to pull it out of the dumpster fire. Everything he did was an improvement over the prior regimes that were sill trying to follow Lorenzo's legacy. Yeah, the contracts were not industry standard, but that does not diminish the fact that they were better than before, employee morale and customer satisfaction kept improving while he was in charge.
You're using contemporary conditions to judge the actions of the past. CAL of the early 90's was as bad a place to work as any in aviation history.
You're using contemporary conditions to judge the actions of the past. CAL of the early 90's was as bad a place to work as any in aviation history.
Gordo was in the Houston pilot Lounge using obscenities to describe Brennerman after he left. Gordo’s ego got way too big. Point being Gordo’s not the perfect almighty that many make him out to be.
He also screwed up big time significantly with CAL’s cash position a few months prior to 9/11 that put CAL in a severe liquidity crisis immediately after 9/11. All other majors had a far better cash positions and overall liquidity after 911 .
07-16-2018, 08:55 AM
#34
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Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 488
Gordon wasn’t a Saint, nor was the devil. He was management...he did what he was supposed to do, and he did his job well. To his credit I don’t think any other airline CEO valued and empowered his employees like he did. The principles that made CAL successful in the book are true even if you may not like it (seems a lot here don’t). I don’t worship him at all, just calling it like it is.
The working conditions at CAL can be blamed on the SCAB leadership at the time.
Smisek may have been LCAL, but seemed to be more a disciple of Tiltion than Bethune, definitely was asleep during class.
The working conditions at CAL can be blamed on the SCAB leadership at the time.
Smisek may have been LCAL, but seemed to be more a disciple of Tiltion than Bethune, definitely was asleep during class.
07-16-2018, 09:31 AM
#36
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Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by Flytolive
Then why did he pay his employees substandard compensation and work rules?
07-16-2018, 12:39 PM
#37
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Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 540
Originally Posted by Flytolive
Then why did he pay his employees substandard compensation and work rules?
It's what you negotiate, not what you do that can determine what you get paid.
Probably going to generate some heat for those comments...
Cheers,
Biff
07-16-2018, 12:48 PM
#38
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
Originally Posted by TCASTESTOK
When United and Continental merged, after a while the quality of the product from a customer point of view started to gradually then sharply decline. Not to mention the PR nightmares that UAL had regarding Dao and now a FDX deadhead lawsuit. Im surprised that the attrition rate in the PR department hasnt been sky high. Anyway do you think that UAL should read a take a few pages from the book by the former CEO of Continental
It's a great book of how the CEO got the company from its almost 3rd Ch11 to ranked 1st in the industry. He let employees do whatever they needed to do their jobs, let them rewrite the whole ops manuals, and even gave them incentives ($65/every month of D:0) to get flights out on time. Why cant UAL take the airline back to its CAL days where pax got treated with dignity and got flights they wanted to where they wanted to go.
It's a great book of how the CEO got the company from its almost 3rd Ch11 to ranked 1st in the industry. He let employees do whatever they needed to do their jobs, let them rewrite the whole ops manuals, and even gave them incentives ($65/every month of D:0) to get flights out on time. Why cant UAL take the airline back to its CAL days where pax got treated with dignity and got flights they wanted to where they wanted to go.
Originally Posted by Knotcher
Gordon wasn’t a Saint, nor was the devil. He was management...he did what he was supposed to do, and he did his job well. To his credit I don’t think any other airline CEO valued and empowered his employees like he did. The principles that made CAL successful in the book are true even if you may not like it (seems a lot here don’t). I don’t worship him at all, just calling it like it is.
The working conditions at CAL can be blamed on the SCAB leadership at the time.
Smisek may have been LCAL, but seemed to be more a disciple of Tiltion than Bethune, definitely was asleep during class.
The working conditions at CAL can be blamed on the SCAB leadership at the time.
Smisek may have been LCAL, but seemed to be more a disciple of Tiltion than Bethune, definitely was asleep during class.
The United management model is antithetical to the model of CAL and Bethune. It's more akin to the Amtrak because of industry consolidation.
All the Oscar alcolites here should be reminded that he was a CAL board member for almost a decade before the merger, but he is as far from Bethune as you could find. Bethune, a Navy vet was an ops guy that could fly an airplane and unabashed skirt chaser. Oscar, kind of a new age brand manager with an affinity for being all this progressive-ly popular. (and maybe empowering men to wear a skirt).
Based on the trend I'm seeing in our financial and real,operational performance; I think we will be a candidate for a new book , Worst to First and Back Again".
07-16-2018, 01:18 PM
#39
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Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,193
Originally Posted by BMEP100
You've asked a fair question, but on this forum you'll likely not get many fair answers. Too many egos and parochial interests.
The United management model is antithetical to the model of CAL and Bethune. It's more akin to the Amtrak because of industry consolidation.
All the Oscar alcolites here should be reminded that he was a CAL board member for almost a decade before the merger, but he is as far from Bethune as you could find. Bethune, a Navy vet was an ops guy that could fly an airplane and unabashed skirt chaser. Oscar, kind of a new age brand manager with an affinity for being all this progressive-ly popular. (and maybe empowering men to wear a skirt).
Based on the trend I'm seeing in our financial and real,operational performance; I think we will be a candidate for a new book , Worst to First and Back Again".
The United management model is antithetical to the model of CAL and Bethune. It's more akin to the Amtrak because of industry consolidation.
All the Oscar alcolites here should be reminded that he was a CAL board member for almost a decade before the merger, but he is as far from Bethune as you could find. Bethune, a Navy vet was an ops guy that could fly an airplane and unabashed skirt chaser. Oscar, kind of a new age brand manager with an affinity for being all this progressive-ly popular. (and maybe empowering men to wear a skirt).
Based on the trend I'm seeing in our financial and real,operational performance; I think we will be a candidate for a new book , Worst to First and Back Again".
Does this mean I can stop wearing a tie?
07-16-2018, 06:23 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by BMEP100
You've asked a fair question, but on this forum you'll likely not get many fair answers. Too many egos and parochial interests.
The United management model is antithetical to the model of CAL and Bethune. It's more akin to the Amtrak because of industry consolidation.
All the Oscar alcolites here should be reminded that he was a CAL board member for almost a decade before the merger, but he is as far from Bethune as you could find. Bethune, a Navy vet was an ops guy that could fly an airplane and unabashed skirt chaser. Oscar, kind of a new age brand manager with an affinity for being all this progressive-ly popular. (and maybe empowering men to wear a skirt).
Based on the trend I'm seeing in our financial and real,operational performance; I think we will be a candidate for a new book , Worst to First and Back Again".
The United management model is antithetical to the model of CAL and Bethune. It's more akin to the Amtrak because of industry consolidation.
All the Oscar alcolites here should be reminded that he was a CAL board member for almost a decade before the merger, but he is as far from Bethune as you could find. Bethune, a Navy vet was an ops guy that could fly an airplane and unabashed skirt chaser. Oscar, kind of a new age brand manager with an affinity for being all this progressive-ly popular. (and maybe empowering men to wear a skirt).
Based on the trend I'm seeing in our financial and real,operational performance; I think we will be a candidate for a new book , Worst to First and Back Again".
Thanks for the great answer. Just what I was looking for, instead of being called a Troll.
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