Pay Activation - Vacancy Bidding
11-14-2019, 06:08 AM
#1
You look like a nail
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 451
Pay Activation - Vacancy Bidding
It’s been a long time (pre 2012) since I’ve bid a vacancy. Can someone teach me to fish and provide the CBA references for pay activation?
The last time I was affected the trigger was brakes release on the first leg of IOE. Not withstanding the delayed activation rule, is that still valid?
The last time I was affected the trigger was brakes release on the first leg of IOE. Not withstanding the delayed activation rule, is that still valid?
11-14-2019, 09:58 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: UAL Guppy CA
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by Thor
It’s been a long time (pre 2012) since I’ve bid a vacancy. Can someone teach me to fish and provide the CBA references for pay activation?
The last time I was affected the trigger was brakes release on the first leg of IOE. Not withstanding the delayed activation rule, is that still valid?
The last time I was affected the trigger was brakes release on the first leg of IOE. Not withstanding the delayed activation rule, is that still valid?
11-15-2019, 11:40 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Position: 757/767
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by pilot772
It’s activation in new seat. For a great majority of pilots that’s as you say wheel spin on OE. Could be a different triggering event if you are “held back.” But the latest would be the activation date on the bid
11-15-2019, 08:24 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: 320 Captain
Posts: 634
Originally Posted by Deathray
This unless for some reason they start a pilot with a junior seniority number in training before you in the same base and cat. Then you get “man for man”, and your pay begins when that pilot begins training. This actually happened to me which was pretty nice.
11-16-2019, 06:12 AM
#5
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
Originally Posted by pilot772
But the latest would be the activation date on the bid
Search for “activation” in the UPA and you’ll get a bunch of examples of different types, dates, and bump/downgrade info. I started out bummed when I realized I wasn’t going to get left seat pay for right seat premium pay trips after my “effective date,” but quickly realized how many people had to read this as they were being constantly bumped back in the lost decade
11-16-2019, 06:35 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: UAL Guppy CA
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by duvie
Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but that’s not quite true. it’s the second bid month after the activation date, which is pretty confusing. So, if your effective date per the vacancy bid is 5/1 say, you start receiving the extra pay in the July bid month.
Search for “activation” in the UPA and you’ll get a bunch of examples of different types, dates, and bump/downgrade info. I started out bummed when I realized I wasn’t going to get left seat pay for right seat premium pay trips after my “effective date,” but quickly realized how many people had to read this as they were being constantly bumped back in the lost decade
Search for “activation” in the UPA and you’ll get a bunch of examples of different types, dates, and bump/downgrade info. I started out bummed when I realized I wasn’t going to get left seat pay for right seat premium pay trips after my “effective date,” but quickly realized how many people had to read this as they were being constantly bumped back in the lost decade
11-16-2019, 07:26 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
Originally Posted by pilot772
I was mistakingly using activation date and effective date interchangeably and they are not the same.
11-16-2019, 08:21 PM
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 35
The effective date for the bid, while important and a relevant number, is not contractually binding for when the company must have you in your new category. Please see the below helpful information on this area and let us know if we can help further in any way. If you would like to have an estimate of the company’s planned timeline for your activation we would recommend contacting Manpower Planning via HelpHub with this request. The are normally pretty good about providing this information.
It’s important to know the definition of Activation (8-F-1-a), which is the date you start in the new category. (Activation is a contractual term)
Activation establishes when a pilot is actually in the new category. If you have training, it is the first leg of your IOE or 8-F-1-c. For Laterals, it is the day you begin your schedule as assigned by the company. For a lateral award the company must start you in the beginning of the bid period. This provides you proper notice and the ability to preference your monthly schedule in PBS.
The effective date of a Vacancy is just a baseline for determine timing of Vacancies and set section 8-F triggers (penalties) for not being activated in a timely manner.
The UPA does impose penalties on the company for delaying training or Activation. These penalties are based on how far past the effective date they delay training similar to the rest of section 8-F when protection rights kick in primarily based on the effective date of the Vacancy/Displacement. These penalties include Delayed Activation Pay (DAP) 2 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-7, the right to bump someplace else your seniority can hold 3 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-9, the right to sit at home and get paid after 6 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-10, or if junior pilots are activated, DAP triggers in your bid category on a man for man basis 8-F-5.
Again, under the UPA the company holds sole discretion on when to send you to training or activate your lateral (see 8-F-1 & 8-F-6). Under normal circumstances, the activation process is set up to get you activated within 3 to 4 months after receiving an award. There are time triggers specific to each Vacancy which are set by the effective date. Additionally, there are penalties on the company (pay rate protection) for out of sequence activation on a man-for-man basis. (8-F-5 & 8-F-7).
8-F-9 If a vacancy is not activated within 92 days or three (3) Bid Periods after the Vacancy bulletin effective date, whichever is earlier, the Pilot may, at his option, exercise displacement rights. You can bid any Vacancy or continue to be pay protected. Please note, you can displace to your Vacancy awarded category if you have one and thereby eliminate any freeze should one be applicable to your award.
System Scheduling Committee
8-F
8-F-1 A Pilot’s date of “activation” shall be the date he begins in a new Category and is set by:
8-F-1-a the beginning of the first segment of his OE in that Category; or
8-F-1-b the beginning of the first segment of his first trip after training for that Category, if OE is not required; or
8-F-1-c the first day on which he begins a schedule in that new Category, when no training is required.
8-F-5 Pay Rate Protection
8-F-5-a For each Category, on a man-for-man basis, a Pilot who has an un-activated vacancy award shall be “pay rate protected” (based upon the blended rate of the Category, if applicable), on the date:
1) another Pilot begins a temporary duty assignment (“TDY”) in the subject Pilot’s Category if such date is after the subject Pilot’s vacancy bid effective date; or
2) the activation date of a junior Pilot in the same Category on the same vacancy bulletin; or
3) the activation date of any Pilot in the same Category on subsequent vacancy
bulletins.
8-F-5-b Any Pilot who is pay rate protected under Section 8-F-5-a, and whose awarded vacancy involves a Base change, shall on the forty-sixth (46th) day of such protection be entitled to expenses and allowances in accordance with Section 4-E-1. Such expenses shall cease once the Pilot is no longer eligible for pay rate protection. However, should the Pilot again become eligible for pay rate protection to the same Category from the same bid award, these expenses shall resume immediately.
8-F-5-c A displaced Pilot who is activated to his Category shall be pay rate protected, on a man-for-man basis, if a junior Pilot displaced on the same displacement bulletin is receiving the pay rate of the Category from which they are displaced.
8-F-7 Changes In Pay
8-F-7-a When a Pilot has a vacancy or displacement award to a higher pay rate (based upon the blended rate, if applicable, of the Category), he shall be paid the new rate upon the earliest of:
8-F-7-a-(1) His activation date; or
8-F-7-a-(2) If displaced, his date of displacement as published in the displacement bulletin issued under Section 8-E-3; or
8-F-7-a-(3) The first day of the second Bid Period following the Bid Period that contains his vacancy award effective date. For example, if his vacancy award effective date is January 10th, he shall be paid the new rate beginning on the first day of the March Bid Period; or
8-F-7-a-(4) The date he begins receiving pay rate protection, in accordance with the provisions of Section 8-F-5.
8-F-7-b When a Pilot has a vacancy or displacement award to a lower pay rate (based upon the blended rate, if applicable, of the Category), he shall be paid at the current rate until the later of:
8-F-7-b-(1) His activation date; or
8-F-7-b-(2) The bulletin effective date; or
8-F-7-b-(3) The date he is no longer entitled to pay rate protection, in accordance with the provisions of Section 8-F-5.
8-F-9 If a Pilot's vacancy has not been cancelled or activated by the end of ninety-two (92) days (including the effective date specified in the bulletin advertising the vacancy) or three (3) Bid Periods after the vacancy bulletin effective date, whichever is earlier, the Pilot may at his option exercise displacement rights, bid any vacancy, or continue to be pay rate protected in accordance with Section 8.
8-F-9-a A Pilot's displacement rights shall expire if he has not exercised his rights prior to being activated into the vacancy award.
8-F-9-b A Pilot who bids or displaces into another Category shall continue to receive any pay rate protection for which he has previously qualified until his activation into that new Category.
8-F-9-c The provisions of Section 8-F-9 shall apply to a Pilot's most recent vacancy award. However, the provisions shall also apply to any vacancy award for which the Company elects to apply Section 8-F-6-e.
8-F-9-d The time period specified in Section 8-F-9 shall be suspended during a disruption to a Pilot's training schedule as defined in Section 8-F-8-b. The suspension shall be equal to the length of the disruption (e.g., the period of unavailability) plus the lesser of (1) fourteen (14) days or (2) the number of days between the end of the disruption and the start or re-start of his training.
8-F-9-e For Pilots eligible for displacement as set forth in this Section 8-F-9, the effective date of such displacement shall be:
8-F-9-e-(1) The first day of the Bid Period that follows the Bid Period containing the date determined by Section 8-F-9, above, provided the Pilot notified the Company of his intent to displace at least twenty-one (21) days prior to that date. For example, if the date determined by Section 8-F-9 is January 30 [first day of February Bid Period] and the Pilot notifies the Company of his intent to displace by January 9, the effective date of the displacement will be March 2 [first day of March Bid Period]; or
8-F-9-e-(2) The first day of the second Bid Period that follows the Bid Period containing the date determined by Section 8-F-9 above, in all other cases.
8-F-9-f A Pilot may not withdraw or change any notification or election made in accordance with this Section 8-F-9 unless mutually agreed to by the Company. A notification or election to displace must include the Category to which the Pilot is displacing. If a Pilot notifies the Company of his intent to displace prior to the date determined by Section 8-F-9, above, and if his vacancy award is not projected to be cancelled or activated by such date, the Company may make the displacement award prior to such date and adjust the Pilot's training plan accordingly.
8-F-10 A Pilot shall be released from work obligation and paid reserve guarantee if, after six (6) Bid Periods following the vacancy award effective date or date of displacement (as applicable), training (or activation in cases where training is not required) has not begun. However, the Pilot may elect, on a Bid Period basis, to continue receiving a schedule in his current Category. This six (6) Bid Period clock shall be suspended during a disruption to his training schedule as defined in Section 8-F-8-b.
It’s important to know the definition of Activation (8-F-1-a), which is the date you start in the new category. (Activation is a contractual term)
Activation establishes when a pilot is actually in the new category. If you have training, it is the first leg of your IOE or 8-F-1-c. For Laterals, it is the day you begin your schedule as assigned by the company. For a lateral award the company must start you in the beginning of the bid period. This provides you proper notice and the ability to preference your monthly schedule in PBS.
The effective date of a Vacancy is just a baseline for determine timing of Vacancies and set section 8-F triggers (penalties) for not being activated in a timely manner.
The UPA does impose penalties on the company for delaying training or Activation. These penalties are based on how far past the effective date they delay training similar to the rest of section 8-F when protection rights kick in primarily based on the effective date of the Vacancy/Displacement. These penalties include Delayed Activation Pay (DAP) 2 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-7, the right to bump someplace else your seniority can hold 3 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-9, the right to sit at home and get paid after 6 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-10, or if junior pilots are activated, DAP triggers in your bid category on a man for man basis 8-F-5.
Again, under the UPA the company holds sole discretion on when to send you to training or activate your lateral (see 8-F-1 & 8-F-6). Under normal circumstances, the activation process is set up to get you activated within 3 to 4 months after receiving an award. There are time triggers specific to each Vacancy which are set by the effective date. Additionally, there are penalties on the company (pay rate protection) for out of sequence activation on a man-for-man basis. (8-F-5 & 8-F-7).
8-F-9 If a vacancy is not activated within 92 days or three (3) Bid Periods after the Vacancy bulletin effective date, whichever is earlier, the Pilot may, at his option, exercise displacement rights. You can bid any Vacancy or continue to be pay protected. Please note, you can displace to your Vacancy awarded category if you have one and thereby eliminate any freeze should one be applicable to your award.
System Scheduling Committee
8-F
8-F-1 A Pilot’s date of “activation” shall be the date he begins in a new Category and is set by:
8-F-1-a the beginning of the first segment of his OE in that Category; or
8-F-1-b the beginning of the first segment of his first trip after training for that Category, if OE is not required; or
8-F-1-c the first day on which he begins a schedule in that new Category, when no training is required.
8-F-5 Pay Rate Protection
8-F-5-a For each Category, on a man-for-man basis, a Pilot who has an un-activated vacancy award shall be “pay rate protected” (based upon the blended rate of the Category, if applicable), on the date:
1) another Pilot begins a temporary duty assignment (“TDY”) in the subject Pilot’s Category if such date is after the subject Pilot’s vacancy bid effective date; or
2) the activation date of a junior Pilot in the same Category on the same vacancy bulletin; or
3) the activation date of any Pilot in the same Category on subsequent vacancy
bulletins.
8-F-5-b Any Pilot who is pay rate protected under Section 8-F-5-a, and whose awarded vacancy involves a Base change, shall on the forty-sixth (46th) day of such protection be entitled to expenses and allowances in accordance with Section 4-E-1. Such expenses shall cease once the Pilot is no longer eligible for pay rate protection. However, should the Pilot again become eligible for pay rate protection to the same Category from the same bid award, these expenses shall resume immediately.
8-F-5-c A displaced Pilot who is activated to his Category shall be pay rate protected, on a man-for-man basis, if a junior Pilot displaced on the same displacement bulletin is receiving the pay rate of the Category from which they are displaced.
8-F-7 Changes In Pay
8-F-7-a When a Pilot has a vacancy or displacement award to a higher pay rate (based upon the blended rate, if applicable, of the Category), he shall be paid the new rate upon the earliest of:
8-F-7-a-(1) His activation date; or
8-F-7-a-(2) If displaced, his date of displacement as published in the displacement bulletin issued under Section 8-E-3; or
8-F-7-a-(3) The first day of the second Bid Period following the Bid Period that contains his vacancy award effective date. For example, if his vacancy award effective date is January 10th, he shall be paid the new rate beginning on the first day of the March Bid Period; or
8-F-7-a-(4) The date he begins receiving pay rate protection, in accordance with the provisions of Section 8-F-5.
8-F-7-b When a Pilot has a vacancy or displacement award to a lower pay rate (based upon the blended rate, if applicable, of the Category), he shall be paid at the current rate until the later of:
8-F-7-b-(1) His activation date; or
8-F-7-b-(2) The bulletin effective date; or
8-F-7-b-(3) The date he is no longer entitled to pay rate protection, in accordance with the provisions of Section 8-F-5.
8-F-9 If a Pilot's vacancy has not been cancelled or activated by the end of ninety-two (92) days (including the effective date specified in the bulletin advertising the vacancy) or three (3) Bid Periods after the vacancy bulletin effective date, whichever is earlier, the Pilot may at his option exercise displacement rights, bid any vacancy, or continue to be pay rate protected in accordance with Section 8.
8-F-9-a A Pilot's displacement rights shall expire if he has not exercised his rights prior to being activated into the vacancy award.
8-F-9-b A Pilot who bids or displaces into another Category shall continue to receive any pay rate protection for which he has previously qualified until his activation into that new Category.
8-F-9-c The provisions of Section 8-F-9 shall apply to a Pilot's most recent vacancy award. However, the provisions shall also apply to any vacancy award for which the Company elects to apply Section 8-F-6-e.
8-F-9-d The time period specified in Section 8-F-9 shall be suspended during a disruption to a Pilot's training schedule as defined in Section 8-F-8-b. The suspension shall be equal to the length of the disruption (e.g., the period of unavailability) plus the lesser of (1) fourteen (14) days or (2) the number of days between the end of the disruption and the start or re-start of his training.
8-F-9-e For Pilots eligible for displacement as set forth in this Section 8-F-9, the effective date of such displacement shall be:
8-F-9-e-(1) The first day of the Bid Period that follows the Bid Period containing the date determined by Section 8-F-9, above, provided the Pilot notified the Company of his intent to displace at least twenty-one (21) days prior to that date. For example, if the date determined by Section 8-F-9 is January 30 [first day of February Bid Period] and the Pilot notifies the Company of his intent to displace by January 9, the effective date of the displacement will be March 2 [first day of March Bid Period]; or
8-F-9-e-(2) The first day of the second Bid Period that follows the Bid Period containing the date determined by Section 8-F-9 above, in all other cases.
8-F-9-f A Pilot may not withdraw or change any notification or election made in accordance with this Section 8-F-9 unless mutually agreed to by the Company. A notification or election to displace must include the Category to which the Pilot is displacing. If a Pilot notifies the Company of his intent to displace prior to the date determined by Section 8-F-9, above, and if his vacancy award is not projected to be cancelled or activated by such date, the Company may make the displacement award prior to such date and adjust the Pilot's training plan accordingly.
8-F-10 A Pilot shall be released from work obligation and paid reserve guarantee if, after six (6) Bid Periods following the vacancy award effective date or date of displacement (as applicable), training (or activation in cases where training is not required) has not begun. However, the Pilot may elect, on a Bid Period basis, to continue receiving a schedule in his current Category. This six (6) Bid Period clock shall be suspended during a disruption to his training schedule as defined in Section 8-F-8-b.
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